DataSage’s Alpha Male Guide to Meeting Women (JULY UPDATE!!)

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Do I need to contact DataSage for his permission to have his guide posted in the newly made men's forum if it's for the sake of discussion? His last visit here was on June 2010.

I have been browsing this thread for a while and it does provide some interesting info.

However, is there an actual dictionary definition for what a human "alpha" actually is?

It seems like definitions vary depending on one's perception, and there isn't just one concise meaning.

Alright, Normally I don't just jump into things this far along, but I feel the need to comment. As a man, and an aspie, who respects women and treats them well, and is engaged as a result, I have to say that this guide would not be particularly effective, depending on the type of woman you are looking for. I have also discussed the opening post with my fiance, and she agrees.

If you are looking for a strong, intelligent woman, this guide will lead you seriously off track. Approaching my fiance in a way modeling after any of the examples in the initial post would have resulted in her telling you pretty much to get lost.

One of the primary things I attribute my success to, is that I was not looking for a girlfriend. Many guys, especially college age, are looking for a girlfriend becasue that's what they are expected to do, becasue they want sex, for status (having an attractive girlfriend confers significant status in some circles) or for half a dozen other inappropriate reasons. I would never ask someone out because I found them physically attractive, and my fiancee would never have agreed to a date with someone who asked her out on a chance meeting (she's turned down guys flat for asking in such a situation, one time harshly enough for her father to tell it was harsh) - lust is not the basis of a good relationship.

I asked my faince out after we had known one another for approximately four months. we worked together (though not directly) interning as writing tutors, and over time, I began to learn some about her based on what of her personality she brought with her. Eventually, I realized that I simply looked forward to the days when we would be at work together, so I asked her to dinner. She said yes. I proposed three months later, and we have been engaged for 9 months now, to be married in December.

If you are looking for a relationship, want to take a complete shot in the dark based on pure looks, and are looking for a girlfriend, this alpha male guide may help - but not if you are looking for a strong, intelligent, confidant woman.

An aspie won't be able to pull the alpha male thing off.

Use statistics, internet dating forumas and trial and error to perfect your pitch and technique.

Successful dating is a contact sport and the more dates you have the better you become!

I am a female with AS, and I find the original post to be laughably sad.

Guys, you want some advice?

BE YOURSELF. For guys with AS, just like girls with AS, that means that there are fewer fish in the sea who are compatible with you, because you fall way outside the normal distribution in most of your personal characteristics. But you have to realize that at the end of the day, if you "get a girl" by following a set of rules or trying to be an "alpha male", you are going to end up disappointed.

To me, there is nothing more unattractive than a man who needs to be "alpha". You know what I do to alpha males? I find them sitting alone in airport bars and get them to buy me dinner. You know how I do it? I just sit next to them and listen to their BS and bravado for an hour, and at the end of it they buy me dinner. I don't feel bad because its a fair trade: one pig needs an empty-headed girl to listen and make them feel like an alpha male (an illusion I have no problem facilitating as long as I get something out of it), and the other pig needs free dinner.

I'd also like to add that I think being an "alpha male", just like being an "alpha female", has more to do with how you relate to your own sex in group settings.

When it comes to relationships, there is usually asymmetry with the male being more "alpha" I suppose, but it should not be role playing, its just natural. And I must emphasize its not like that in every relationship... sometimes the girl "wears the pants". But even though I'm more alpha-female around other girls and in a work environment, if I'm with a guy it seems like he's the one who places the order at a restaurant, and I don't really give a s**t. I hate talking to strangers anyway so it works out, but if he was super shy and didn't say anything, than I would order and would not think "omg he's not alpha".

I thought I might be offended by the original post, but it seems pretty on the ball. Its not about sexualizing women so tis all cool and such.

Its definitely true that taking the weight off of her to continue the situation makes it easier - that is, socialization with a new person is fraught with tension all around o_0 I don't think that I'd agree that any woman who approaches you is 'interested' though. I get along better with men, so will ask men a question I couldn't ask a female, or may just be more comfortable not being near the women.

All that said - confidence in yourself really is incredibly attractive. Not cockiness, but that sense of being self-assured? I understand its hard to portray at first, and is realistically done in zones where you are comfortble (like if you're totally into star wars, at a star wars con), but do give it a shot. Know that you are a good worthwhile person, carry that with you everywhere you go, and others will see it too.

Have you never met an empowered woman? Modern women (at least here in the US) have careers: ranging from the mundane to the prestigious: business managers, soldiers/Officers, lawyers, doctors, scientists, college professors, police officers, owners of multi million dollar grossing corporations, politicians etc. Not every elegable woman is sitting there waiting or wanting for some shmuck to slither up and hit on them. Not every woman is actively looking for a relationship. Some have no interest in relationships at all. Sorry to say it but when it comes to courtship, ultimately this is a woman's market. Guys are a dime a dozen, and they don't waste time on men who don't interest them. And given how common crimes against women are, if a man approaches them at random, especially outside of a structured social setting he is likely to earn their immediate distrust; if they have any common sense.

There ARE women who approach men who interest them. I know this from personal experience. They size you up; if they discover something OFF about you, they generally lose interest. I had a girl who thought I was something special; until she found out I had a disability. She didn't have anything to do with me after that. Women aren't computers; there is no secret cheatcode to get the response you want. A woman is not that simple. There is no fool-proof Dummie's Guide to courting women. I know this may sound odd coming from someone who has had no success with women; what the hell would I know about dating, right?

If you want some insight into how a woman operates, ask a woman. They are going to have a lot more insight. Kirsten Lindsmith blogs every week on this site, for instance. Read some of the things that get posted on the Ladies forum. Hell, post a question! I don't think they will mind answering (provided you don't ask anything creepy and keep it respectful). Ask the Aspies on this site who have not only managed to successfully interact with women; but also managed to form lasting relationships or better yet who have kept a long term marriage. This is ofcourse assuming that you're looking for that kind of relationship somewhere down the line. You have any socially accomplished friends? Ask them to help you find someone. I haven't had alot of luck with that, of course I don't think I have asked recently, and my one friend is a NT and really doesn't understand AS. If you don't have even one friend; you should probably work on that first, I would think.

There ARE some women who play the field just as skillfully as any hormone oozing cassanova. I would hazard to say that type is likely to make up the majority of the SINGLE women you'll find in nightclubs and bars. I can't speak for everyone, but a Lady "Player" doesn't strike me as being a worthwhile investment of a guy's time; at least not if they are looking for a meaningful relationship to EVER be a possibility. But hell, if all you want is sex; more power too you...I guess. Chances are those women are the kind that are only interested in guys who they can envision sleeping with; based on a pretty shallow set of traits. So unless your body is especially appealing and/or you possess a significant level of charisma; chances are it isn't going to happen. And the sloshed chicks? Unless you're a slimeball; taking advantage of a drunk isn't a valid option either. I'm not saying that there isn't a small chance that you might find a (unattached) genuinely fascinating member of the 'XX chromosome set' in such a place. It's just pretty unlikely. The women who frequent those places are usually there for the same reason the typical guy is: to get crazy, drink boose, and/or hook up for some strange. At least that's how it is in this neck of the woods.

Finding a decent girl is hard; finding one that has enough compassion to be with a guy with AS is even harder. I can't for the life of me picture that sort of woman frequenting a nightclub or bar. As a matter of fact. I can't imagine your average NT girl wanting to have anything to do with an Aspie guy. As for an Aspie girl? I have yet to meet one in person. I don't live in a big city. The nearest adult Aspie group meets up in Portland and never in the same location. The women who live here in town are either married, alcoholics, too young, too old, members of an exclusionist religion, or lesbians (possibly a combonation of those). Maybe if I had been born female I could have had better luck. I am pretty sure I'm not gay so with the ample male population this does nothing to help my situation. There aren't a whole hell of a lot of options. I hate Oregon.

Personally I have had nothing but bad experiences being the one to make the first move. Times have changed women have changed. There are fewer and fewer places (at least appropriate places) people can meet other people; especially places that are going to be Aspie friendly. I mean, maybe I am wrong. I admit I can't speak for all Aspie men. So I am guessing some guys here on the forums might be more successful at the whole dating thing than others. A lot of people (NTs included) look for partners online now because it's getting harder to MEET people in the conventional sense. Then again I haven't had a whole lot success with online relationships either. Even if it means being alone if I don't find someone; I am starting to wonder if it is even worth all the trouble. I hate being judged by other people. I can no more stop being myself than I can will my heart to stop beating. And If being myself means being alone. Then there is really nothing I can do.

I would rather sear my own eyes shut than lie or pretend to be something I'm not, just so I can land myself in a relationship. Relationships built on lies are worse than being alone. I have my parents to thank for demonstrating that fact. Just like in the wild some males are excepted by the females and allowed to mate and some are rejected therefore do not mate. Its harsh; but that's just how the world works. If you don't have what a woman wants? Let's just say I am not going to spend my whole life searching the world for a woman who may or may not exist. I don't beleive in destiny or soulmates or Santa Clause, at least not anymore (I NEVER believed in Santa.). And really trying get a date with woman after woman in hopes of finding the ONE just sounds like a good recipe for emotional indigestion.

I'm almost 30 so my options and chances aren't getting any better. Pretty much everyone I knew in highschool is married. Even guys who I thought were the biggest scumbags on Earth. There are women who will eagerly get involved with abusive dirtbags and stay with them like loyal puppies. They'll go out with guys who have zero personality if they have some other desireable trait. They'll marry men with a face that is about as attractive as a freaking doorknob; provided they see something they like about the guy. How a woman picks her mate is about as consistant as the weather. There is no rhyme or reason to the "love" game. Women choose men for whatever wacky reasons they have. If nothing about you intrigues them they won't get involved with you. You either get lucky and meet a nice girl who's into you or you don't. Like I said it is a Woman's market and socially inept guys and shut-ins are the least likely to interest; let alone meet women.

So the advice given at the start of this thread is really only valid if you already know where to meet women, have enough social ability to function in said setting and have enough confidence to even approach a woman. Even us misfits get lonely. Unfortunately you can't will girls to like you. There have been a handful of girls who have shown any degree of interest in me when I was still in school but I wasn't socially developed enough to do anything about it. I'm not in school anymore and I left my job of almost ten years because it was slowly killing me. My ownly social outlet is my one friend now. I don't know where to go to find compatible women. I find it hard to talk to women not because I don't have anything to say; its hard because those situations are intimidating. That and I am somewhat effeminate and I find it easier to connect with a trueblue, sincere, confident, slightly aggressive, funny and down to earth tomboy - someone a typical guy would like as a buddy if she were a he; which is a pretty rare breed anymore (at least the straight variety). My chances are.....not good.

No matter how well I have learned to disguise my AS in typical situations, the minute I am confronted with something as nerve wracking as chatting up girls; my disguise disappears and I become just as awkward as I was when I was a kid. Maybe that means I wouldn't be suitable for a romantic relationship. But I don't see how that makes any difference if I have no way of testing that theory. I can't compete with smooth talking NTs. I am like a bull in a china shop when it comes to wooing a lady. So I suppose that makes me a little biased on the subject of relationships. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean they can get it. And it isn't helpful when someone suggests that something is straight foward or easy simply because they've had success.

I appreciate what the OP is trying to do; I don't doubt his personal success. But it does not mean it will work for everyone. Things like where you live and the availability of single women in your area are factors; as are things like mobility, employment status, work hours, social abilities etc. I don't know. Maybe it's just me. Like I said I can't speak for everyone. Thank you for your advice. I sincerely hope it helps at least a few of the single men on the forums. Sorry I tend to run on, at least when I'm writing.

Thing are not always straightforward because NTs think it is. Whenever I say that to an NT they say they haven't had it easy either. Except for there and my hard are very much different. I thought that living in America had an advantage that they don't use drink to socialise, and they are less likely to respect bad boy attitude as they respect hard work.

Havng only recently been diagnosed with AS, I have realized why I am attracted to men who are "unusual". It is because I like myself. I know I am unusual and prefer a man who is because I like this. I can relate better to someone who has the similar social phobias and unusual analytical focuses. The awkward way an AS man approaches me is what attracts me.
The Alpha male approach just doesn't work with me. I get that a lot and I just dismiss them. I don't want a smooth talker. My ex was an asppie, even though he doesn't know it, he was so much more than I am. I never knew it and thought he didn't love me. My loss. But when we first met, I asked him to dance even though I had been with two "normal" guys at the bar who were competing for me. He was all alone at a table with his anorak coat on. I was just intrigued. When we danced, he looked like he was in pain! Well I liked him so much because on our first date he admitted how lonely he was. During the movie (Titanic) he held my hand so lightly and lovingly, I just fell. I did something I had never done before. I slept with him on the second night.
It is the genuine aspects of an aspie man that attracts me. I can relate to it and love the person more than I can an NT guy. Unfortunately, I need to find an aspie man who can actually feel something. After 14 years with my ex, it took me 3 years to find someone else I could care for. But he had AS so severe, he could not feel anything for me. It wasn't that long ago so I am still not over it. Unfortunately, my aspies makes me feel TOO much. I have to be very careful with whom I invest my feelings. It takes me a very long time to get over it.

I had a lot of trouble reading and relating to this post, but I wanted to contribute what I think is the biggest problem I see in this area, for both males and females:

I am an individual, and I want to be with someone who wants to be with ME, as an individual, not just the best generic woman they could get.

A lot of the suggestions in these types of posts might be useful, but if you use them to create a rigid formula of how to relate to ALL men (or women) you are missing the individual contact that makes a relationship worthwhile.

What would really impress me is anything that shows you have noticed me as an individual - i guess it can be very complicated and confusing, but I think the best guideline is that if you are thinking something like "ALL women want flowers" you are reducing the person you want to be with to a generic category - if you are thinking this PARTICULAR woman likes flowers, you are treating the woman as an individual whose needs you are trying to fulfill.

Is DataSage married? I want to hear what his credentials are for writing this guide.