Are attractive women usually taken?

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All this post said to me is you don't know squat. You're using a couple of things that happened to you and basing it on the entire population.

I agree. Also a woman may seem to friend zone someone because she wants to get to know him better. If she sleeps with him right away, then she's a slut, right? Is that how it works,guys?

Being a friend is different than friend-zoning somebody. There still seems to be some terminology gap here between male and female members.

Friend -- being friendly. Friend-zone -- using the perception of being friends to use someone emotionally or materially, and with little to no reciprocation in the relationship (and I don't mean sex). Also, no intention to ever date said zoned person. "I just see him as a brother", etc.

Btw, men on the site -- tell me if my definition in my overly-long post is right or wrong according to what you see and feel when you've been friend-zoned. I'm taking a lot of (what I feel is) unnecessary heat over the definition from a certain member here.

Friend-zone -- using the perception of being friends to use someone emotionally or materially, and with little to no reciprocation in the relationship (and I don't mean sex).

I don't doubt that happens. There are plenty of sharks of either gender out there.

So how exactly is being a friend different to friend zone then?

Is a friend expected to have sex with the person eventually or something?

I have male friends that I have absolutely no intention of sleeping with or dating, who I do not use as an "emotional crutch" "punching bag" or for money or time.

That is what friend zone is to me. A friend. Nothing more - ever.

What you're describing "friend zone" as is more like "Manipulative woman using a man" which to ME is not what "Friend zone" means.

Glad we could calm down the rhetoric and insults

Yes -- that's your definition, and it's a valid one for you. Maybe I'm reading too into this (guys, am I?) but when a man says "friend zoned," generally we know what that means and feels like.

I'm not saying normal, platonic friendships don't exist between men and women. I am saying that if there is a woman a guy is interested in, and instead of becoming a prospect, they get thrown into the "friend zone," where there is 0 chance of anything happening, that's what we are referring to.

"Friend Zone" has some psychic pain and loss associated with it -- Friend doesn't. We don't care about being relegated to just friends with women whom we aren't interested in (and I'm sure vice-versa for women as well). No loss!

We do experience intense feelings of inferiority, loss, worthlessness, and frustration when we are "friend zoned" by someone we are interested in. What compounds this is when someone takes advantage of this. Would you not agree that if a woman (or a man in the opposite case) senses that it probably isn't a good idea to be a friend with someone because of the conflicted feelings (and this should not be that hard to detect, even for Aspies) yet continues on with the friendship, maybe for material or emotional reasons, that this person is at the very least making an unwise choice, and in many cases has ulterior motives that are not in the best interest of the other person?

So it's slang, not literal, and conveys a certain situation and resulting mindset. Does that make more sense? I don't mean this sarcastically.

We don't care about being relegated to just friends with women whom we aren't interested in (and I'm sure vice-versa for women as well). No loss!

What this means is that if a woman realizes a man is attracted to her but she is not attracted to him,, then she should refuse to be friends with him otherwise she is putting him in the "friend zone". But what happens when she actually does this--- if she actually refuses to be friends with a man who has an attraction to her that is not mutual? What happens is that then she is lablede a cold b*tch for refusing this. This is where the huge gender split is that you're seeing here in this thread. It is as though a man's attraction to a woman suddenly becomes her responsibility. If he isn't attracted to her then their is no problem and they can be platonic friends. But if he is attracted to her, she suddenly acquires the responsibility (in his eyes) to reciprocate that attraction or be different varieties of Bad Person. She can continue to be friends with him and be a "user". She can refuse to even strike up a friendship with him (as you advised to me in an earlier post) but then she's a "b*tch". She can suddenly cut off a friendship when she realizes there's an attraction and then she's a ($%$#@$%).

Why should a woman have to bear the responsibility of a man's attraction to her?

Back in the day, I sometimes had crushes on men that were in my group of friends. But so what? It wasn't their problem that I had crushes on them and I didn't presume to make it their problem. But you do. You think that if a man is attracted to a woman, it suddenly is her problem and something that she needs to deal with by either reciprocating the attraction or suddenly refusing to be friends with the man. (An act which earns her a whole bunch of epithets on its own.) This is horribly unfair to women and it is why you are taking heat from women on the board.

Btw, men on the site -- tell me if my definition in my overly-long post is right or wrong according to what you see and feel when you've been friend-zoned.

Long-term thinking -- any woman who is worth anything and not crazy or broken (sorry single ladies, I don't mean you) will have a BF. So you need to get in line -- make friends, don't be too forward, cultivate the friendship without being used, and odds are that when she's done with the current guy and looking for the next, you'll be in line and have a good chance. And don't just do this with one woman, be in line with many. Make sense?

I've sought a girlfriend for two years, yet it has been my experience that almost all the women my age who I find attractive claim to already have boyfriends. Are these women telling the truth, or is pretending to have a boyfriend the current popular way to reject a man's advances?

In my experience (as a man) being 'friend-zoned' means the woman/man has decided they will never see you as anything more than a friend. There are no connotations of mind games or manipulation, which is what you are describing.



The vast majority of posts dealing with this topic say that, as a general rule, being friends first does not get results. In fact, the consensus is that by doing so you voluntarily put yourself in the friend-zone, should she happen to be romantically interested in you in the first place. I'm not saying your point is entirely invalid, but it flies in the face of everything that's been said here on numerous occasions. Oh, and there's also an assumption in your post that she will inevitably dump her boyfriend at some point in the future. Such a scenario is not worth waiting around for - what if they are truly happy and get married? You've wasted all that time.

Edit: removed superfluous text, added a little.

Crinkly -- just one question -- are you speaking from experience, or theory? (meaning, have you personally had relationships, or just been friend-zoned -- If the latter, are you basing this just on the experiences of others who have written on the site?)

I'm speaking from my experiences - been in both situations (friends and zoned), and I never had a relationship just "happen" without some kind of friendship groundwork.

It occurred to me that lots of people probably don't know the signs of being a friend (with possibilities) vs. being friend-zoned (usually a parasitic relationship), or what we mean by this -- let me spell it out here for clarity and for the edification of guys who do want to know, and for clarity to the few women who have commented thus far:

Generally (between men and women)--

Friend -- a relationship of equals, with almost limitless possibilities between the two, up and including eventually dating.

Friend Zone -- one party expects more than the other, while the other party uses this asymmetry in expectations consciously or unconsciously to their advantage. Will never have a relationship with the guy who is on the other end of this "friendship."

Friend -- "Would you like to study together sometime?" -- note, no precise end goal, the real point is to either spend time together, mutually improve skills in an academic area, or both

Friend Zone -- "I'm having trouble with this paper we have due on Wednesday, can you come over and help me?" -- In this case, a definite output for the situation, the emphasis is on only helping her, not you. Your "reward" is presumably the "privilege" (and if you like her, you view it that way) of getting to be around her.

Friend -- Calls you any time, out of the blue, for any reason at all, or nothing, with no expectation that she wants something particular from you other than your company or what is going on in your life. She will ask about your life and what is going on, and if she likes you, will even pay attention to what you say.

Friend Zone -- Calls you only when she wants something. A letter of Rec, help with homework, answers for tomorrow's test, a shoulder to cry on, someone to talk about other guys to -- she won't really care about what is going on in your life and won't ask, except to be polite (if she does), and will not really listen to anything you say. If she remembers anything you do say, she will be very curt -- "yeah yeah, I remember you said that. Anyways, like I was saying....." Get the drift?

Friend -- Will look out for you, may even set you up with one of her friends, will help you find someone else if she isn't available for a relationship, or will at least offer pointers and input on what she thinks is attractive and important (hint hint).

Friend Zone -- Will actively block others from taking advantage of the same kind of parasitic relationship she has with you. She will not be helpful in giving you pointers (including what looks good to her), will not intro you to her female friends, and will discourage your attempts to date other people and her. You lose and keep losing with a "friend" like this.

Friend -- "Would you like to go to coffee/a movie/dinner with me?"

Friend Zone -- "I don't have anyone to go with and you're a human with a heartbeat. This outing means nothing other than I have someone to jaw at all night"

Friend -- carries on a two-way conversation -- what you say is important.

Friend Zone -- basically gives a multi-hour speech, where you can't get in a word or where your words are basically forgotten or ignored.


Does this clarify?