Why don't more women make the first move?

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Sorry, on an iPad so it's too difficult to quote multiple posts but some of the women who've posted here have said that they've asked men out and been rejected.

But accepting that you will be rejected the majority of the time is part of being the pursuer. Aside from a very few lucky bastards men are rejected far more often than they succeed when asking women out. Ask yourselves honestly if you have asked as many men out as the average man asks women.

I don't know about the women here, but I do know women in real life who've approached maybe two or three guys in their lives, been rejected, and decided based on that that being the aggressor will never work for them.

This is no different than the guys who post here complaining, based on being rejected a handful of times, that no women at all are interested in them. The advice usually given to them, by men and women alike, is to keep trying.

The reverse is true as well.

And, to those that've posted about hurt feelings when a guy seems no longer interested in friendship after being rejected romantically, I can understand the hurt feelings. But it must be kept in mind that not having ones romantic feelings reciprocated is embarrassing and, depending on the depths of those feelings, can be quite painful. It's not necessarily the case that the guy only wanted sex and does not see you as worthwhile without it. It is more likely that he is trying to spare his own feelings by avoiding the source of his embarrassment.

Indeed, and this is a very important point. Women seem to expect that because they are wimminz that they will not be rejected when they pursue others and if they are then they should never try. That's life; deal with it. Those of us with willies have to. Equality, innit.

Last edited by Tequila on 29 Feb 2012, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Social liberal fiscal conservative. It pisses both sides off.

Not me it doesn't, though it depends what kind of fiscal conservatism you're talking about. Do you believe in a welfare state?

I'm thinking quadrant 4 of the political compass. I believe in a limited welfare state where there is a safety net, but people have a responsibility to act responsibly and try to avoid needing it. The acting responsible part usually infringes upon some right each group (in the USA republican or democrat) thinks as inalienable. The best example would be admonishing people to think before reproducing and consider their situation and partner before reproducing. It seems that a majority of NTs in this country sees that as heartless and cruel.

Just going to point out something I have noticed with women who have approached guys. Most women who do ask out guys and get rejected are not ready, nor are they used to rejection on such a personal level from the opposite sex, and most of them don't seem to handle it very well. The same seems to be true when women initiate and are rejected sexually, they don't handle it that very well at all.

I'm not sure if that is due to personal, social factors or evolutionary ones. Maybe all of them come into play?

I have seen exceptions to that rule but they aren't common and most of those women are more assertive and approach guys more often and have probably developed a thicker skin because of it.

You're sure it was because they were into you though? I get the impression that a lot of guys, once taken, somewhat have to distance themselves a bit from female freinds. Its much like a ex-friend's ex-girlfriend who we were all really tight with who invited me over several months ago to drink and play cards, but she had to check with her new boyfriend and I never heard back (which, lol, she looks like Kate Beckinsale - I absolutely get why he'd say no). Its part of why its difficult for guys and girls to be straight social friends rather than...say...work acquaintances or something like that, two single people sure, one single and the other dating....well....they'd both have to be mutual friends but even then spending time alone with an opposite sex friend while you're taken is still not seen well and at least half the time people's suspicions with that still make sense based on a lot of things I've seen happen when people got too lax with that.

To mds_02 and Tequila: OK, you both haven't read our posts properly. These were men we asked out when the men WERE interested in us, and showed very obvious signs that they were - flirting etc. I realise rejection is part of the whole game, and I've asked out more than a few men (for me personally, at least 10) who showed obvious signs they were interested in me. If you had read my posts properly, you would've seen that almost all of these men have been freaked out when I asked them out...men who showed definite interest at first.

Eh, I wish this would happen more often. Seems some just can't take rejection. I'm completely clueless as to whether anyone's ever interested in me(probably because there hasn't been anyone), so it's really just taking shots in the dark. Never has any good results.

I'm a bit the opposite - I can't take reject-ing well, especially when they're girls who I have a lot of respect for and where, on external social ladder, people might argue that I'm being pretentious to even pass them up. That's a big part of what made internet dating for me like getting my teeth drilled.

And most men, when they've been rejected, would say that the woman had shown obvious signs of interest, flirting etc. And being "freaked out" is not an uncommon response from women when men ask them out.

Also, "at least 10?"

That's not that many. Most men have to approach considerably more women than that to get even 1 positive response.

See, approaching women is something men have to practice at, sometimes for years, by approaching many many women. It takes time and effort to get good at it. You're certainly not obligated to be the aggressor, but after only ten tries the level of effort you've put in is just not comparable to the amount that the average man puts in.

I mean, when I was single, I'd try my luck with maybe 30-40 women in a single year and get only 5 or 6 positive responses. And before you mention that that's more than one in ten, and that you should thus have gotten at least one positive response, you also need to take into account the amount of practice that that gave me.

Last edited by mds_02 on 29 Feb 2012, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

what do you mean when you say that they don't handle it well? i haven't seen any difference between men and women in this area.

There is a difference. Men mistake friendly signals as flirty ones. I'm talking about men who suddenly change the topic to relationships, or keep changing the topic back to that, and start going on about how women won't give them a chance, and look at me. And they blush a lot, or laugh nervously.



Note, that I didn't say I'd only asked out about 10 men. I meant at least 10 men who had feelings for me also - something that doesnt happen very often (to anyone).

EDIT: Just to add, it's not just the obvious signals above that a man gives - there's other signs I recognise very well. It's very easy to tell when one person is attracted to another. I could list all the signs here, but that's a different topic.

Last edited by smudge on 29 Feb 2012, 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

most of the time i can't really tell if men are interested so i just kind of hope (or i ask them rather bluntly).

i hope our society shifts and it becomes more socially acceptable for women to be aggressors, but there needs to be changes from the way many men and women approach dating, and the changes involve more than women just doing more asking. the whole overall mindset and attitudes need to be adjusted. it's not a simple change and i expect it's going to take the birth of another generation before it's really different.

what my boyfriend said about it:

You seem to be assuming that you, as a woman, are incapable of misreading signals. Men are not the only ones that mistake certain signals as being flirtatious.

Edit:Unless those men told you outright that they were interested, you need to take into account, just as men do, that you might have been mistaken.

Edit again:for instance, another interpretation of the behavior you've described is that they mentioned their lack of success with women hoping you'd give them advice, or set them up with someone, and that the blushing was due to the fact that admitting that lack of success is embarrassing.

Last edited by mds_02 on 29 Feb 2012, 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

@ lexian:

I don't think anyone does better when put on a pedestal. Another thing though, its a real mess when finding someone or not finding someone is seen as a matter of pass or fail in personal worth or like either gender is supposed to con their way into acceptance or a relationship or change themselves to fit someone who they found 'hawt' and from there just psychologically latched onto for whatever reason.