NT female seeks input on AS male's fears

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Maybe that's where his fears are coming from?

Fair question (although I'm already not like the others, since I had a romantic relationship with him before, so I mostly know what to expect. We've also been in and out of each others' lives for 15+ years. The only woman who's been around longer than that is his mother). Anyway. I believe it was Tony Attwood who described the role of an NT partner as an "executive assistant." That is fine with me, and much, much different from being mommy/therapist. Does the job description include some unpleasant things? Probably, but I've already been doing them, and at least I'll get some sex for my efforts.

Edited to add:

Possibly, but I don't think so. By now, he knows I'll put up with pretty much damn near anything; I recognize how much effort he makes; and I appreciate all the amazing things he CAN do, way better than I can. I've also convinced him that I won't disappear in the meantime. As Wanderer has been saying, this knowledge, or sense of security, may be why I always get pushed to the back of the queue. That's fine. He can be "difficult" when he's not in the right frame of mind, so I'd just as soon wait until he is.

Last edited by waitykatie on 03 May 2012, 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

That's probably a more reasonable way of looking at things.

You know it could be what IlovemyAspie said too. To be dependant on someone else is not a good feeling, it can drive people to try and escape even when they need the help.

My question at this point is how long do you think you'll wait for him? Do you feel you are any closer to your goal of a lasting relationship. I often wonder how long is too long to wait for someone, no matter how much you love them. No matter how much you want things to work, they have to meet you half way at some point or its not going to work.

How long will I wait? As long as it takes.
Do I feel we are any closer? Definitely.
Did I ever imagine that progress would be so slow? Definitely not.
Am I comfortable with where things are at the moment? Yes.
Am I passing up other opportunities? No.
Am I busy with a career and a life and my own priorities? Yes.

It's not just about love. Neither of us have ever been as happy with anyone else, and we've hurt a lot of people trying to find a good fit elsewhere. There wouldn't be any point repeating mistakes we've already made many times. Despite the difficulties, no other man measures up. This guy inspires me, makes me believe that anything is possible. I have learned more about life, love, and the human condition from him than anyone else, and that will never stop. That's essential. With NT men, I reach a point where there isn't much more I can learn from them. I also don't feel the passion. I think it would be irresponsible of me to take up with some guy, knowing my interest (a) is feigned and (b) has a finite endpoint. This guy is the one I want, and he's given me every reason to believe that he'll come around. So I am staying glued to the spot. (Besides, he'll accuse me of being just another lying phony if I don't. )

Too often, people give up the things they want most, for the things they want now.

I wonder what would happen if he stumbled on this thread somehow.

LOL! I can't imagine! Guys, what would you think if you realized this was your waity-girl?

edgewaters, this actually raises an important question. He won't stumble on this thread, because he doesn't know about WP, because he is undiagnosed, and has probably never even heard of AS. I learned about autism and AS in the course of my work only a couple of years ago, and then I recalled what he'd told me about his son. Age 4, speech therapy, because he wasn't talking enough. Age 6, diagnosed at school with a "learning disability." Specifically, the "delta" between his 8th grade vocabulary, and below-average scores in everything else. They wanted to medicate him and put him in special ed classes. The spouse agreed, but my guy very strongly opposed. (I agreed with him. I think we live in a very over-pathologized, over-medicated society). But as he told me, I thought, hm, sounds just like dad.

So no official diagnosis, but my view is, if he's not on the spectrum, it still helped me understand a lot. His son is now 10, and I expect he'll be correctly identified at school eventually, which I understand is how a lot of men figure it out. But maybe not. I can't imagine carrying on a relationship, knowing all about AS, and keeping silent, while he doesn't know such a thing even exists.

So the big question is: if/when/how to explain? I know it will depend on all kinds of things when the times comes. But I'd be very interested to know what you guys think. Would you want to be told? In what manner should such information be delivered? Was there anything particularly good or bad about your "discovery"?

I'd feel threatened at first, definitely, and angry that the idea wasn't run past me first. But I'd probably calm down a lot once I realised it was all anonymous. It sure would be more palatable than finding out she was discussing me with her real-life friends, especially male ones. And I think I'd feel rather proud to read about how much she loved me - as evidenced by her saying so and by how hard she was working on our relationship.

Heh. That's familiar. When I was 7 they put me on the short bus and sent me to the special ed classes and they were testing me for retardation, because I was so bad at math. But I wasn't there very long, I guess I pretty much freaked the teacher out; I'd be going on about the Iran hostage crisis (I really liked the newspaper for some reason) and quoting Shakespeare, it must have been kinda funny, wish I could remember it. So then they thought I was a lazy genius. Which I'm not, I was just hyperlexic. Confusing for a kid, being ret*d one day and a genius the next.



I'm not officially diagnosed, but here's how it happened to me. My girlfriend just started talking about it, "have you ever heard of Asperger's?" sort of thing, just a casual conversation about it. I figured at first she brought it up because she thought she had it, so I looked it up, and that's when I realized she wasn't talking about herself.

You could try it that way, maybe.

The only thing is, I still couldn't deal with it for a long time. I've sort of known for the last 5-6 years but I haven't been willing to engage it until just recently. That was our only conversation about it. At the time, we'd been through alot but things had become much better and it was a pretty carefree time, and I just wanted to enjoy it. Especially after I found out how difficult it is for adults to be correctly diagnosed and how little help there is.

It may be just my experience from growing up before anything was known about it, but I wouldn't entirely trust the school to identify his son. I'd say you should definately mention that, regardless of whether or not you're going to mention anything about the father.

A lot of people seem to get caught in a trap where they discover that their partner probably has AS, and in desperation they imagine they have to convince their partner of this new discovery. They probably imagine the Aspie will realise all the trouble they've been causing, get therapy, and start to break out of their rigid behavioural patterns......rather like an alcoholic who has to acknowledge they have an alcohol problem before they stand a chance of rehabilitation.

So I've seen a lot of stuff from people who are tearing their hair out - "he's in denial, I try to convince him but he just gets angry." I think it's much better to have a very light touch about the whole AS thing, to accept that the partner might never want to give themselves that label. The argument cannot be won because AS is too subjective........as my GP warned me, even after a proper diagnosis, I would never KNOW I had AS. Spectrum disorders are like that.

But I don't mean forget about AS. I mean focus on the individual traits. They are objective. If somebody can't multi-task, that's an objective, demonstrable fact. Much harder to deny. Now, if you happen to know that they have a lot of Aspie traits, then you can study AS and thus get a better fix on what other traits they might have, you'll understand better why they do strange things, you'll know more about how to deal with them. If the Aspie insists they aren't an Aspie, fine. You've still got the knowledge yourself, so if you're right, they will begin to wonder how you manage to understand their problems and respond so well to them. It's a shame if you can't share the voyage of AS discovery in a more direct way, but really not the make-or-break thing that a lot of folks think it is.

Me too. Aspie focus is often very sticky.


I'm the opposite. Got AS but sometimes I wonder if I've broken out of that constraint. Definitely hyper-sensitive about some things, yet strangely oblivious to other things, at least from the outside. Did you ever take the AQ test or the Aspie-Quiz yourself?


The betrayed partner's behaviour nearly always deteriorates when they find out, I think, and I'd never blame them for that. But sure, if they really go over the top, it takes the edge off one's remorse, to say the least. I even feel guilty about having had a relationship while still technically married........sure, I was entitled to have somebody there for me, and her de facto desertion was indefensible, and I'd issued enough grave warnings that I couldn't see it as a marriage any more, but I balked at spelling it out that my fidelity drive was crumbling, mostly because I didn't want to end up using that as a lever to force her to return. And we'd already established that if she returned, I'd not feel able to trust that she wouldn't leave again as soon as the chips were down. She'd left before, for a few years, so I feel she's something of a fair-weather friend with no concept of the pain of abandonment.


That's the way, I think. I've read that what fazes many people is the realisation that a step-family can never be a nuclear family. Even writing "all my love" on a greetings card, is no longer strictly true.


Your description of what she may have been hoping for has just made me remember - somewhat earlier in our relationship, but after it had become sexual, it was I who had been wanting a romantic roll in the violet patch, and I thought she did too........first thing she told me when we met that night was that she hadn't got any underwear on. But for unknown reasons she wouldn't do that, nor would she come back home with me that night. Never got an explanation, still don't know why anybody would do a thing like that. Her hypocrisy stands out a mile now, but as usual, it took me a long time to make the connection. In this case, 17 years.


Quite likely his experiences there would have shaped his personality........I always look for problems in previous relationships as the key to why they're acting like such jerks with me, but childhood problems are probably more of a factor. I'd be very wary of a relationship with anybody who'd had a domineering father, because I'd expect her to unconsciously tar me with the same brush the moment she felt the relationship was in conflict with her individual freedom, which of course relationships always are.


Thanks for this. She certainly tried to meet my needs, but her idea of caring for me was to be my cook and housekeeper........no "do you want your floor scrubbing?" - she'd just scrub it. It was all on her own terms. I wanted us to work together on the chores.....it was embarrassing to see her labouring away like a slave for me. Like I said when she told me of her previous relationship and how she'd cleaned up his house for him and not been appreciated for it, "did you ever ask him if he WANTED you to clean his house?" Her role seemed more like that of a mother to a child than adult-to-adult. She'd buy clothes for me that I didn't like.........putting myself in her shoes, I think she simply had very fixed ideas about nurturing and genuinely felt she was being a good partner. I couldn't get her to see my point......she would just get upset and feel unappreciated. I also think that she used the chores thing to get away from me.......but she never once said "I'm exhansted. I need to be alone for an hour or so. Will you be OK?" Of course I would. But it was always excuses - "I could tell YOU needed your space so I gave it you." Same when my son visited. She'd stick it for a little while and then go upstairs to do some ironing, and not come back until he'd gone. But she never discussed her feelings. I don't think she knew how to.

What exactly happened to you when the magnet went over the hard drive? Was it like a nervous breakdown?

Ha ha! Good for you! Wish I could've seen it.


The way you describe learning of AS is what I had in mind (assuming things in general, and in the moment, are a lot more calm and settled than they are now). Great idea to bring it up in the context of his son. He doesn't say much about his daughter, but he loves talking about his son. I agree - I do not trust the school to correctly identify it either. There is a private school in our area strictly for kids with "communication challenges" - mainly kids on the spectrum. That might be worth investigating, especially before it's time for high school.


Oh, goodness, no! That's terrible! The ex-wife is the bloody alcoholic! I've read some of the imaging studies you mentioned - fascinating. You can actually see that the wiring is physically different. That sort of tangible confirmation has been such a relief. He's not crazy, and neither am I.

I think there's a chance he won't be very interested, as edgewaters describes. If so, I know better than to push it. Learning about AS has been tremendously useful to ME, and if that's the only value it ever has, so be it.

I now recognize that my late grandfather must have been on the spectrum too. All three of his (adopted, NT) kids - my father and two aunts - had a love/hate relationship with him, and are insecure to the point of crazy. But my mom and I had greater distance and objectivity, so we didn't take it personally and just accepted him as he was. So having observed many of the same traits in a close family member, of whom I have fond memories, has also been helpful.


Exactly. I admit, I'm having a bit of fun right now, "magically" getting more and more of it right. But I've read about some creative communication techniques that I'd like to try, and I think that will go better if he is "in" on it.

In that vein, here's a question for hyperlexics (or anyone else who'd like to chime in). On one hand, my Aspie is a prodigy, a wordsmith. He uses words like "germinate" and "nefarious" in casual conversation. Yet, words with nuanced emotional content seem lost on him. My sense is that he can't quite distinguish degrees of emotion, for example, anger: peeved < annoyed = irritated < frustrated < aggravated < mad = angry = pissed off < furious < outraged < volcanic. For him, emotions seem to be on/off states: e.g., he's either pissed or not pissed, and he seems to assume it's the same for others. So, I read about a couple where the NT partner stopped using words connoting such subtle gradations, and switched to a numerical scale: "angry 2" (a bit irritated) or "angry 8" (really pissed off). I am itching to test it. What do you guys think?

I think it's consistent with Aspie "black-and-white thinking." I have that, but it expresses differently in me. I've been told that my vocabulary is highly nuanced, and I'm well aware of those words for different degrees of anger. Your idea of using logical numerical suffixes like that could well work. I was glad when my chemistry teacher told me that ferric sulphate and ferrous sulphate were to be re-named iron(II) and iron(III) sulphate, because obviously it was much easier and more logical than those trivial names of yesteryear. I'm sure it would be the same with emotion words if I wasn't yet conversant with them. If I were you I'd feel reluctant to try "leading" the process quite so rigidly - i.e. I wouldn't say "let's use ANGRY-1, ANGRY-2," etc., I'd just start to slip the concept into the conversation - "I was only a bit annoyed when you did x, not really really angry......on a scale of 1 to 5, I was only at level 1." If that seemed to go down OK, later I might say "I've had a lousy day with that horrible manager. I was at anger level 4 when he said I could cope without more staff." Though maybe I've got a thing about being light-touch..........I'm still coming to terms with the idea that influencing a person and bullying them are different degrees of the same action, and that there is such a thing as a good leader. Anyway, your idea is definitely worth a shot - I don't see you stand to lose anything.

I'm mindful that I didn't yet reply to at least one sizeable section of your questions and comments, so I'll take a look and see if I can track it all down........meanwhile, I recall that your Aspie was upset that you'd left the country, and you said one trip was for a number of years. I was wondering about the circumstances that led to that, how he took the news, when he was told, whether he was invited to have a say, why you felt able to leave him for so long, whether you expected to miss him, whether you did miss him. it would seem like a big step for a couple to separate for so long...........I'd like to see if it resembles my own experiences.

The other thing is about AS-NT relationships in which the NT becomes a mentor or guide for the Aspie. I read in "Loving Mr. Spock" that one psychologist advised AS-NT relationships can ONLY work if the NT takes that role. Warning: Aspies frequently have a hard time with authority figures. If I had to mentor a partner, to become something of a life coach for them, I'd be mindful of overdoing it and accidentally insinuating my personality onto them, taking decisions away from them, and generally treating them like a child. But then, I have issues with authority. The problem is that there IS an air of authority about it - the NT in some ways knows best, it's the name of the game. Also when I care about somebody and I feel I know what they're doing is wrong and self-harming, it's as if they're harming me too, and I get the urge to control them. These days I don't succumb to it, but during the 1970s when men were only just getting used to the idea that they were no longer wearing the trousers, I couldn't see the imbalance too clearly because it had been a social norm for so long. And my parents were quite authoritarian (who wasn't in the 1950s?), so althugh I hated authority when it was applied to me, I couldn't see it when I was applying it to somebody else. Your experiences will no doubt be a lot different.

My guy is the same way. He once told me that he's very hard to offend. It was all I could do to not burst out laughing. He has taken offense and ripped my throat out over compliments. I learned, it depends on the subject, his frame of mind, and what he thinks my frame of mind is. By now, my opinion is that Aspies and NTs have more or less equal levels of sensitivity and obliviousness - they're just apportioned differently.


Yes - 28/50. I took some other autism quiz that ranked me 9/10 - "broad autism phenotype." Not on the spectrum, but having features, like distant and aloof. Yep, pretty much. That's actually one reason my Aspie approached me to begin with. He thought I'd be different.


Wow - my marriage broke down in a very similar way. Exactly, he was a fair-weather friend, a nomad, drifting aimlessly until another shiny new object catches his fancy. Very poor impulse control, living a life of excuses. Cars, gadgets, hobbies, cities, women - all expendable when he loses interest. I was wife #3, though it was by far his longest relationship. Still, it means he had 3 divorces under his belt before age 38.


Ha ha! I wish I could sign a card with, "75-80% of my love." That would be honest, but good God, my mother would be hysterically upset. Another good example of the little lies NTs tell each other, to hold their relationships together.


Don't beat yourself up - it's like that for a lot of people, including me. As they say, hindsight is 20/20.


I do the same thing. It is a skill my Aspie definitely does not have, and boy has that caused problems. It's one of those "executive assistant" things I've advised him on.


It was probably the same for my ex. So many of his actions were premised on the assumption that my needs were the same as his, when they emphatically were not. There were plenty of good things, so I could live with a lot of it - but NOT the passive-aggressive garbage. That is the worst, because no honest conversation is possible, about what they are really upset about. Problems never got resolved - just hauled out out to flog me with any time his feelings were hurt.


That is going to be tough. What a very sad end to 17 years. I'm not sure what advice to offer, except good luck, be strong, and don't blame yourself.


Ha ha! That makes two of us!


More or less, yes, which triggered a dissociative something-or-other. I was absolutely on fire at work, like "intellectual" was the only functional part of my brain. The social/emotional part apparently just went offline for repairs. The circumstances were awful, but being in that detached state, on autopilot, was pretty nice. I actually kind of miss it.

This makes me laugh because it's the reason why I "lurked" around WP for a while before making my first post. My Aspie is diagnosed so chances are he's on here now or at least "lurked" around himself. Which is why some of the details are left out in my post. I read a lot of post here that sound like I could have written them. So when I post things I leave out some details that aren't important to the story. That way if he were to stumble on a thread that I'm posting on, he hopefully will not make the connection. I don't think he would mind. After all the reason I'm here is to learn how to understand him better. I think if he found out I'd be embarassed.

I too have tried to keep the details as anonymous as possible - I share ToughDiamond's concerns about privacy 100%. And while I think the risk is infinitesimally low, the ex-wife has a lot of free time, and it's possible the son has been diagnosed by now. I do not honestly know what kind of parent she is, but I'd guess she's just too foxed most of the time anyway.

Embarrassment: I'd like to address that. If we were in NT land, I'd be mortified too. But we're not, so I look at it quite differently - more productively, I think. Here's a comparison. I spent 6+ years abroad, and during 3 of them, I was in a relationship with a local. He signed me up for language classes, showed me all around the country, took me home to interact with his family - many things to help me "learn the ropes" and integrate. (It didn't work out, but that's beside the point).

I regard our interactions and investigations here at WP exactly the same way. We are in a full-immersion course learning a new culture, a new language, a new way of perceiving, of being - because we love our men and we want to know how to make them happy. How to adapt, adjust, make the relationship work. How to not go insane while so much still doesn't quite make sense. The Wrong Planet is more exotic and marvelous than any country on earth - but it doesn't come cheap or easy. Why should we feel any embarrassment over any of that?

An example: once my foreign boyfriend sent me out to have lunch with one of his school chums. After I was barely able to choke down a bit of the disgusting meal, I lit a cigarette off the candle on the table. Horrified, he shoved his chair back and exclaimed that I'd just killed a sailor in the harbor nearby. Wh-wha-what!?!?! Contemptuously, he explained that that was the local custom/belief/superstition. Light a cigarette from a candle = a sailor dies. As if EVERYONE knows that, duh. One of countless times I was made to feel like a ret*d fool - for not knowing something completely fictional and stupid.

These wonderful guys are welcoming "tour guides" and don't do that to us - and I cannot express enough gratitude for that. So I'm not embarrassed in the slightest.