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edgewaters
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28 May 2012, 6:12 pm

IlovemyAspie wrote:
That's another thing that bothers me. Seems like he's discovering himself and trying to sort out his AS. I would like to think she would realize what is lacking could be because of the AS and that learning about it and working through it together may change her mind. But possibly this is just what she wants to do. If this is the case my heart goes out to him. Its gotta be rough trying figure himself out and dealing with this.


Yeah, its not cool at all to put her sexual needs ahead of his well-being. Maybe she feels unfulfilled, I get that, it is important and everyone deserves to be able to fulfill their needs but ... priorities, you know. That's some heavy s**t she laid on him at a really inappropriate time. "I cheated and I want an open marriage" right when he's going through that, not cool.



KTodd
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31 May 2012, 6:48 pm

So we’re not doing an open marriage. I told her I can’t do it and we’ve both agreed to drop the discussion and focus on our marriage and family. She says that she was not forcing me into an open relationship and that she can stay true to me but she just wanted to be honest with me and admit that she’s “human” and has cravings from time to time. I don’t need the honesty. I know it’s a risk that she’ll cheat in the future but that’s the same in every marriage and the open marriage proposition was driving me nuts. I’d rather have the closed relationship and if something happens in the future and we’re strong as a couple and it’s only a fling then we’ll deal with it at that time.

The fact that she cheated on me in the past for some reason doesn’t hurt me. I don’t like it and I don’t want her to do it again but for some reason I’m not emotionally upset about it. Not sure what to make of that.

It’s odd that she wants the open marriage and I don’t. I would imagine in most couples it would be the guy proposing the open marriage and the woman would be resisting it.

She’s irritated that I am “overanalyzing” the proposition but it seems like a serious issue that if not immediately rejected then it needs to be carefully considered.



DogsWithoutHorses
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31 May 2012, 7:17 pm

KTodd wrote:
So we’re not doing an open marriage. I told her I can’t do it and we’ve both agreed to drop the discussion and focus on our marriage and family. She says that she was not forcing me into an open relationship and that she can stay true to me but she just wanted to be honest with me and admit that she’s “human” and has cravings from time to time. I don’t need the honesty. I know it’s a risk that she’ll cheat in the future but that’s the same in every marriage and the open marriage proposition was driving me nuts. I’d rather have the closed relationship and if something happens in the future and we’re strong as a couple and it’s only a fling then we’ll deal with it at that time.

The fact that she cheated on me in the past for some reason doesn’t hurt me. I don’t like it and I don’t want her to do it again but for some reason I’m not emotionally upset about it. Not sure what to make of that.

It’s odd that she wants the open marriage and I don’t. I would imagine in most couples it would be the guy proposing the open marriage and the woman would be resisting it.

She’s irritated that I am “overanalyzing” the proposition but it seems like a serious issue that if not immediately rejected then it needs to be carefully considered.


I'm glad you both were able to have a discussion about it.


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IlovemyAspie
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31 May 2012, 9:42 pm

Yes and I'm glad you were able to stay true to yourself and express that this was something you did not want. I know you were considering it for her sake but I could tell it wasn't what you wanted. Who knows why her cheating on you doesn't bother you. We can't always explain our feelings. We feel how we feel good, bad or ugly. I don't think you were over analyzing anything. This was serious decision and you needed to analyze it from every angle. This wasn't like "what do you want for dinner"! ! This was serious. I wish you all the best.



ToughDiamond
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01 Jun 2012, 5:36 am

KTodd wrote:
It’s odd that she wants the open marriage and I don’t. I would imagine in most couples it would be the guy proposing the open marriage and the woman would be resisting it.

I keep finding "gender-binary" books that say men are promiscuous and women aren't, but I never saw any evidence for it myself. Chauvinist pigs aren't necessarily male.

Frankly if it were me, I think the simple fact that she WANTED to sleep around would be enough to ruin my feelings for her. Possibly I'd be OK about it if she'd been faithful and was only raising it as a last resort and not as the preferred option, but it would still bother me a lot if I thought she could have strong disloyal feelings.

Well done for standing up for your marital rights. I hope you manage to fix whatever caused this behaviour of hers. For me it's always very difficult when things have gone so far wrong, because I feel that every step I take to make the lady feel less abandoned, more listened to, more loved, or whatever else it is that might stop them feeling adulterous, would be also rewarding her. I think punishment is more appropriate. Not very politically correct of me, but that's how I feel.



Senath
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02 Jun 2012, 6:13 pm

IlovemyAspie wrote:
This wasn't like "what do you want for dinner"! ! This was serious.


Agreed!



TheSunAlsoRises
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06 Jun 2012, 10:39 pm

KTodd wrote:
So we’re not doing an open marriage. I told her I can’t do it and we’ve both agreed to drop the discussion and focus on our marriage and family. She says that she was not forcing me into an open relationship and that she can stay true to me but she just wanted to be honest with me and admit that she’s “human” and has cravings from time to time. I don’t need the honesty. I know it’s a risk that she’ll cheat in the future but that’s the same in every marriage and the open marriage proposition was driving me nuts. I’d rather have the closed relationship and if something happens in the future and we’re strong as a couple and it’s only a fling then we’ll deal with it at that time.

The fact that she cheated on me in the past for some reason doesn’t hurt me. I don’t like it and I don’t want her to do it again but for some reason I’m not emotionally upset about it. Not sure what to make of that.

It’s odd that she wants the open marriage and I don’t. I would imagine in most couples it would be the guy proposing the open marriage and the woman would be resisting it.

She’s irritated that I am “overanalyzing” the proposition but it seems like a serious issue that if not immediately rejected then it needs to be carefully considered.


You are a good man my friend; I couldn't do IT. My temperament is such, i seriously doubt she would ever want to be around me again after asking me for an open marriage much less cheating on me.

"Come on sweetheart come to daddy."

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TheSunAlsoRises
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07 Jun 2012, 12:11 am

Let me clarify something so there will be no misunderstandings. The point of *my* post was to illustrate(in a somewhat metaphorical way) THAT asking *me* for an open marriage and confessing an affair to *me* would end in a divorce.

Having said THAT, by all means, do you, man.

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NicoleG
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07 Jun 2012, 10:07 am

I honestly haven't figured out what works for me. I've seen open marriages work for others, and I've been a dating partner in a couple of open relationships (I've never been married myself), but I'm honestly not sure where my own personal preference lies.



HisDivineMajesty
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07 Jun 2012, 10:22 am

For me, the suggestion of an open marriage would seem like an indication that I'm not sufficient. Personally, I have a very low tolerance for that type of thing - it's somewhat possible for me to hold grudges against people for things they did to other people years ago. If a woman who had ever cheated wanted a relationship with me, I'd refuse. These things do seem to show their character, their personality. If she's capable of cheating on another man, she's capable of cheating on me. If a friend of mine has been violent to someone else, he can be violent to me, and I'll keep an appropriate distance. If I knew someone to be a fraudster, I'd refuse their offers.



iamchickenlittle
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07 Jun 2012, 4:47 pm

I have considered the same thing in my marriage and would like to add my 2 cents.

My wife and I discussed it. We have a difficult marriage. The AS-NT thing, we have 4 kids, one requires an extreme amount of care. We co-own a business that has been slow recently.

Sexually my aspie issues are pronounced. I have difficulty reaching climax because my too close to another person stuff goes off and my body registers it as fear it can halt an orgasm (mine) in the middle of it (that sucks so badly). In new relationships this isn't an issue due to the excitement of the new. In a stable relationship it can take me over an hour of sex to reach an orgasm. Sounds great but after a while it is tedious. This one thing added to our poor relationship has been death to our sex life and we both love sex....a lot.

I think the issue for me would be (and maybe you) is by doing this will you set in motion the end of the marriage. Every morning I wake in my house, with my kids and I can't imagine life without that. It is my anchor to my greatest happiness and I can't and won't lose that without a hella fight. What will change in yours? So in short...

Will you be able to get laid? That matters how will you get your sexual satisfaction because self satisfaction isn't as good.
Are you cool with your partner getting laid by another person?
Will this end your marriage in the long term? Does that bother you?



The_Face_of_Boo
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07 Jun 2012, 5:07 pm

^ I just wanna make you a nugget.

Run!!



tarantella64
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29 Sep 2013, 11:03 am

I've yet to be impressed by Dan Savage's arguments on this topic, especially since he coerced his own partner into living with an open marriage he didn't especially want.

My ex asked me for this and handed me a basket of poly talking points, so I went and did some research. I wasn't impressed by what I read there, either, and no, I absolutely wouldn't recommend it for a household with kids. The poly propaganda reminds me of the talk around kids and divorce: "Oh, kids are resilient, they just want you to be happy." I don't know what kind of fantasy that comes from, but a great many kids aren't in fact all that resilient, and suffer in divorces. The poly line -- the more adults in a household, the better for the kids -- is true only if all the adults are reliable grownups who stick around, not flighty post-adolescents who're mainly concerned with optimizing sexual fulfillment. If you can maintain a marriage of more than two people, my hat is off to you, but there aren't many who can actually do it.

I agree; she had kids. Let her do the decent thing: make a stable home for her children, have discreet affairs if she must get it extracurricularly, and seek sexual nirvana after your children are grown. As for what you agree to, well, if you're deeply uncomfortable with it or unhappy about it...don't. You'll get hurt.



tarantella64
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29 Sep 2013, 12:41 pm

Also, a word (or several) about "fulfilling needs".

This is part of the standard poly propaganda: you have needs, they must be fulfilled, and it's immoral not to fulfill your partner's needs, or to set him or her free to fulfill own needs; it means you don't really love your partner and are a selfish, jealous, possessive git.

The problem is that these aren't needs, they're dissatisfactions. I am entirely dissatisfied living in the part of the country where I live; I don't belong here; I don't enjoy the climate or several of the cultural norms; what passes for architecture is painfully ugly to my eye; I miss several geographical and botanical features of other regions deeply.

However.

Is moving a need? No, of course not. I'd like to go, yes. But I have a child who does belong to this place, has family and community here, and is happy here. The schools are great, it's affordable, etc. Maybe most important: if we moved, we'd both lose our support structure and it'd be replaced by nothing. She'd be left to acclimate more or less on her own while I tried to get started making a living. This would likely be damaging to her.

When she's grown, I will move. I'm the grownup here, which means that some of my desires take a backseat to the kid's overall welfare. I will survive in this place and manage to enjoy myself for a span of years, and then I'll go.

Likewise, do I have unfulfilled sexual desires? Baby, do I. But no, I'm not going to die or feel my life has been in vain if I don't get to go running around with my ass in the air. More important: My kid doesn't grow up in a home where there's a parade of grooly men. Also more important: Her mother doesn't put herself at geometrically increased risk of STDs. I can make do with what I've got, thanks, till my life's my own again.

Let's talk a little bit about actual needs.

Almost every parent of young or multiple children that I have met has a crying physiological need for more sleep. These people have generally been sleep-deprived for years, and yes, it has a real and physical effect on their bodies, as does lack of time for proper exercise. Most mothers I have met, particularly mothers of young children, are half-crazy with loss of identity, because young children literally need help and attention every several seconds or minutes. They desperately need an entire day to themselves; many need time and freedom to do work that's important to them beyond childrearing. Do they go and get it? Generally, no. And that's because they understand that (a) the children's needs come first; (b) this is temporary and they are grownups, they will deal.

The poly response to this is "oh, well, that's why you need more sexy adults in your house, they'll look after the kids". It's a great line that, sadly, has nothing to do with reality. Adults seeking sexytime pleasures are not generally interested in doing hours of parenting work for a roll in the hay, and they aren't interested in committing far enough to make it safe for small children to bond with them. Furthermore, unless a poly prospect is interested in getting up at 5:30 am to drive someone else's kid to band practice, or help pay for that kid's first car, or is putting away dough in the kid's college fund, or is willing to be the heavy sometimes and sit there training a 7-year-old to clean her room while she pitches a fit, and is willing to stick around for a decade taking lip from snotty adolescents, I don't want to hear about it. I'm guessing that weeds out maybe 97% of all people interested in poly lifestyles.

(Incidentally, future poly lover, I've been meaning to have a garage sale for like two years now, so if you could make that happen then totally mwah. Because I'm too busy with the living-making and the kid-raising and all. We might have sex later if I'm not too tired.)

The poly talk about needs is intensely selfish and comes from the land of individual psychotherapy, where you exist in a bubble with your therapist and are merely arranging thoughts in your head. It has very little to do with the real and competing demands of family life, including the reality that the kids are more vulnerable than the adults are, and need more, and need inconveniently. That kind of individual selfishness, taken out of a therapeutic bubble, is amoral in the sense of being unwilling to think seriously about consequences.

If you can find a stable arrangement of multiple responsible adults who get along well and all want to be married to each other, formally or not, for long enough to get kids grown, and share values closely enough to be able to pull it off, then dandy. But considering how difficult it is to manage two psyches in such an arrangement, I don't hold out a lot of hope for three, four, five. By way of comparison: I work at a university, where tenured faculty live and work together in departments together for decades, bringing in new people one or two at a time, maybe once a year or less often. If you want to see a model of psychopathology, that's it. The only reason most of them stay is that no one will pay them that kind of money anywhere else, and no one will let them have at their special interest anywhere else, and besides most of them have never lived outside universities and they're scared. But an awful lot of them just loathe each other.

It's a nice (or notnice) fantasy, it's hardly new, it's not a game you want to play for real unless you are in fact a selfish git or you haven't got (and really don't want) kids.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Sep 2013, 12:45 pm

Jeez... if it's not for you then kudos. You don't need to bash poly people as some manipulative sex crazed freaks. It's simply not reality.


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tarantella64
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29 Sep 2013, 1:13 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Jeez... if it's not for you then kudos. You don't need to bash poly people as some manipulative sex crazed freaks. It's simply not reality.


One, I didn't, but poly is about "unfulfilled sexual needs in monogamy", is it not?

And two, if you don't want to come off manipulative, then please tell your poly buddies to stop selling a line to spouses/SOs that amounts to "if you love me, are psychologically well, and aren't a narrow-minded jealousy-ridden creep, you'll be open to trying it. If not, I may just have to go in order to Get Needs Fulfilled. Despite promises and kids' needs. It's too bad your mind just isn't open enough to keep us all happy."

Maybe you should go back and read the OP's story. He's married with kids, and his wife's just sprung this on him.