why can't more women be like my ex gf

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You're kidding right? You obviously haven't looked very much into this thread. I have told him. Several times in various ways.

billiscool, you may want to consider a couple of things people have been trying point out to you here or you may not. That choice is up to you.

What you may not know about me is that I actually do understand where you're coming from.

So let's accept your perspective. She left because you didn't show her enough appreciation for everything she did for you. She enjoyed doing it all.

So from what you're telling us, you screwed up because you didn't say "I love you," or, "Thank you," or display enough appreciation for her efforts in other ways.

So far though, your way of handling it has been to wish that more women were like her. That you would like to find another woman like her because she made you so happy. If more woman were like her shy aspie guys like you would stand a better chance of being happy.

That's what you've been saying from what I can see. Have I got that right so far?

Okay, so what I want to ask you now is, does wishing there were more women like her solve your problem?

It seems pretty clear that there are hardly any women out there like that, else you wouldn't be posting that you wish there were.

What you may want to ask yourself is, why there aren't more women out there like that. Maybe there's a reason for that. And there is. Most women do not want to carry on an entire relationship that way. Even most men wouldn't want to.

I think what most user's here are really trying to tell you is that instead of just wishing things were different than they are, you should think about dealing with the way things are.

Ask yourself why most women don't want to carry all the weight. Ask yourself what you could do differently.

From what you've been saying, if all you did was show more appreciation, she never would have left. Right?

I wouldn't count on that if I were you. I wouldn't, because I have been in very similar relationships. While it is appropriate to say all the right things to make a person feel appreciated, I have learned the hard way that words and gestures like buying flowers is fine for a while, but that if we don't pick up some of the weight in a relationship as well, the words and gestures eventually become not enough. What really works, is taking the reigns once in a while.

The reason for this is really much simpler than you might think. She may very well have enjoyed being in charge. She may have enjoyed waiting on you, at first.

What you need to understand is that giving cannot be a one way street for long. When only one in a relationship gives, they eventually become drained, because they aren't getting anything in return. It's NOT just about words and gestures. It's about tangible deeds too. A heathy relationship needs both! So even if you did give her the words and gestures of appreciation, she may very well have stuck around longer, but she still may very well have eventually left anyway, because you're not paying for her meals and insisting she not pay you back, not doing the laundry or dishes, cleaning up the home, taking out the trash, or whatever else she's been doing for you. After a while of doing nothing in return but saying thank you, bringing home flowers, or whatever other simple gestures she seems to like, the words and gestures become empty and meaningless, and they'll leave anyway.

That's what I and other users have been trying to tell you.

There are people out there who seem to enjoy doing it all, and always say they do, but who haven't learned to admit to themselves that doing everything for someone else is emotionally and physically draining. Over time in a relationship like that, they find they are so tired from doing everything, they have nothing left to give, and they leave.

There is one other possibility too. I was once just as shy and introverted as you are. Every now and then I met women just like your ex who turned out to have a kind of savior complex. They'd see this shy guy, and think, "All this guy needs is for someone like me to draw him out." I don't know if your ex was like that, but there are two problems with getting involved with women on a mission to "improve" you. One is, if you do "improve," their mission is over, and they leave. The other problem is, if you don't improve, their mission has failed, and they leave. Either way, women like that eventually move on.

So what I'm trying to get you to understand is that whether she was on a mission to improve you, or if she were really trying to make things work, if you don't carry your weight, the likelihood of her leaving is very high no matter what else you do. What you think would have "fixed" the problem, most likely would only have given the relationship a little longer life, but it would have eventually ended anyway.

If all you do at this point is keep wishing there were more women like her, all your going to do is keep wishing there were more women like her. You're not going to solve anything wishing things were different. You can't change the women out there.

You CAN change yourself.

Asperger Syndrome doesn't mean you can't change, but it does make changing very difficult. But if all you do is beat your head against walls and wish the world were different, you're only going to hurt yourself.

If you only say to yourself, "I can't change. This is who I am because I'm an aspie!" you never will change because you won't try to, and you'll just keep complaining about things you "can't" change.

Well, you can't change until you try to change, and that starts by asking yourself, "I wonder what I CAN change?" then TRYING TO. You won't know what you can change, or what you can't change until you try. And you won't try until you tell yourself you can.

You won't become an NT. But you will learn what changes you can make.

People ARE trying to help you here. Most of us are aspies too though, so it's hard for all of us to get through to each other. Arguing over the specifics of exactly why she "really" left, isn't helping you at all, if the only result is that you're just going to keep saying, "It's too bad there aren't more women out there like her. I'd be so much happier if there were."

Well, there aren't. The hard truth is you need to accept that and learn to deal with it, or nothing's going to change for you, and nobody can help you.

You can't change the world and neither can we. We can't change you, or make you see how you can, but we can help you see it, only if you're willing to listen, and quit complaining about things you can't do anything about anyway.

Or is this what you really want to hear?

You're right. It sucks. Women suck. Our lives suck. Life isn't fair. The world isn't fair. This sucks.

What does that solve?

Too bad most women know a lot better.

If you can't put in 50/50 into a relationship you're not capable of one.

What would I (or any woman) get out of a relationship where I have to do more than my fair share of heavy lifting (metaphorically)? This is the part I don't understand.

well,im not saying every single women should be like my ex but there should be more of them.
what funny is that my relationship is a complete gender role switch. She asked me out, mostly paid for her own stuff, talk most of the time, and ask me to have sex with her. now some people here may hate the idea of a woman doing all them things. But be honest don't men do everything in a relationship. Don't men have to ask out women, don't men have to pay for women meals and no pay back, don't men have to plan and do almost everything, and don't men have prove they have ''confidence'' and all that stuff.

she did the ''lead'' role like it was normal, it was just how she was. Now people here may not like this style of relationship and you know what you no one here has too. But for shy aspie men and eccentric men like myself, these type of women(like my ex) are the best for us.

How do shy women have a relationship. Simple the men control everything. it's a double standard.

I guess I've just never lived those standards. I sometimes ask men out, usually pay my own way (I only *don't* if they're very insistent) and I initiate sex at times. But if the guy just sits there like a lump on a log and can't contribute to the conversation, what interest would he have for me, you know?

And there aren't. So what do you propose should be done about it? What are you prepared to do?

You can't change other people, but you can change yourself. So what are you prepared to do?



The women replying here probable wouldn't like it. I'm not a woman though, and I never said I wouldn't like it. I'd love it if more women would wait on me and I didn't have to do anything, but the fact is, as you've pointed out repeatedly, they are few and far between.

Rather than wish things were different, I choose to deal with the way they are. I can't change the women I meet, nor should I expect them to change. They are who they are, just as we are who we are. If they want to change, that's fine. It's their choice. But if they don't, it doesn't do me any good to complain about it.

What has done me a lot of good, is to look at myself, and see what I can do to make myself more attractive to be with.

It's the only thing i have any control over. It's the only thing you have any control over.



No man controls everything. That's a myth. Those who think they do are deluding themselves.

Nooo! It's not just been me on here saying this, but it should be 50/50, or close to it. If one is financially better off than the other than maybe they should pay all or most of the bill if they want to do something expensive, but the poorer one should pull their weight by trying to organise something nice that doesn't cost much. Stroll in the park, building snowmen, a long night of loving... imagination is everything. Anyone who has money can spend money, but real romance needs brains.

Ok, you may not believe that and may want a woman to take care of you. But what we've all tried to say is that (as you have found) these women are very few and you are limiting the number of potential girlfriends by being strict about this.

Just speaking personally here. If I had to start and progress every conversation, I'd stop bothering. I'd interpret that as a sign that the man wasn't interested in talking to me and move on.

Same as sex. If I had to initiate it every time, I'd take that as a signal that he didn't physically fancy me and only went along with it to keep me happy, and I'd feel a bit rubbish about that, like I was pressuring into something he didn't want to do. So I'd stop.

I know it's difficult for us to see others' point of view so that's why I'm trying to explain how it felt for me when I was in a relationship like that and playing the role of your ex. By the end of it I was emotionally and financially drained, I loved the man so much but didn't actually like him by the end, and my respect for him and desire for him had long gone.

I have just ended a relationship like that.

I hate gender roles and I think they are stupid and troglodyte. I am sorry if I am offending, but I do.

I am quite angry now, I know I expect to go through many emotions, but when I read stuff like billiscool is posting, it just makes me see red.

I *am* a caring, respectful woman who have everything I thought would make the other person happy. That meant, I paid for everything save the last meal, drinks, presents, treats, cooked... the lot. I had to be the one to always book an "appointment" for us to be together. I know he wanted it, but he was just like dead weight in the end and what made matters worse was the fact that not only was I not shown appreciation, but I was insulted too.

So, think before you say you wish there were more women like me. I don't. I wish I would grow a pair, and make myself tough, a real b***h, because those are the ones who seem to have all the luck and men at their feet.

Oh, aspiesandra27, {hugs}. I think you've really laid it all out on the line here, and I hope we *all* grow a set, like that. I think it takes only a few times of getting burned like that before you can really internalize the message.

Aside: you're a great recent addition to this site.

Thank you mv...hugs back (((( ))))

Billiscool, please, please, please listen to MrXX when he says we all need to learn from experiences and not dwell on how others can/should be. There are good people out there, there are bad ones too. There are men and women whom we may be compatible with, but we all certainly need to adapt, to respect, to learn and grow from every experience. In my case, we were both aspies. So in that case what do we do? Both lament how bad each other was? I speak for myself, and I have said this before, I am a richer person for every relationship I have, whether it is successful or not. I cherish the good and learn from the bad. What went wrong? What can I do next time that will make it better? Blaming others exclusively for the failure of a relationship is assuming we are perfect. And unfortunately we aren't. None of us is. My conscience is clean on this one. But I have still learnt. I hope you can do the same and have the hope and humility to go forward knowing next time....you have grown. Hugs.

well, we all have our types we like.. I like women who ''lead''. Yeah, You people have no idea on much effort I take to play the so called traditional dating role, yeah, it's not pretty lol. There is a good reason why me hitting on women,really don't get me anywhere.
let put it this way: when women do most of the talking,I do good, when I have to talk, well, it kinda goes sour......

You have since, but you hadn't at the time. Yes, people had said, "You were too passive" but it was clear he didn't understand what people meant by the term and nobody was willing to clarify this point. Instead of saying, "Everyone else can see it but you; goodbye" you could have said, "Actions X Y and Z are what people mean when they say "passive" because....etc." Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine when people use your kind of argument, because it is pretty much the least helpful thing anybody can say in the circumstances. Essentially you're saying, "I expect you to fix the problem, but you're crazy if you think I'm going to tell you what it is", and that is simply an unreasonable demand. Nobody can fix a problem they're not aware of, or do not understand. In any case, you remedied this by an excellent post earlier today.

I think bill knew what the problem was before he posted this thread anyway.

The post you quoted is from page two of this thread, which was posted on Sunday, nearly two days before you quoted it on page 5. Between that quote, and the time you posted, there are several posts from me attempting to help him see what I and others were seeing from his own postings. I never said "good-bye," and never once indicated he was on his own. Saying if he wasn't willing to look more carefully at the reality that nobody could help him is not the same as saying "You're on your own."

When an aspie can see in their own words why people are saying what they are saying, you're asking them to believe themselves rather than someone else's interpretation. I know that doesn't always work, but if it does work, it's far more effective than saying, "Look, this is what's really going on."

When you jump straight to your own interpretation of things, it is typical aspie nature to reject the reasoning, because it comes from someone else's perspective, which is one thing we are not only not all that good at, but is also what we've had pushed on us all of our lives. It's aspie nature to reject other's interpretations. Aspies tend to have a very strong need to arrive at conclusion based on their own thinking, not on anyone else's. That is what I was trying to help him do.

That is why I waited two full days before finally spelling it out in my own words. Because doing so right after he posted would probably not have done any good. If the first thing you do when an aspie isn't seeing what you think ought to be obvious, is spell it out for them, there is a high likelihood they'll not only reject it, but also reject anything else you say, because in their mind, you're pushing your thinking on them. If I had done what you suggest, and he did reject it right away, it's almost certain that he wouldn't have listened to anything else I had to say, so trying to show him from his own perspective would have been a wast of time as well, falling on deaf ears.

I never said "good-bye" and never indicated I wouldn't try to explain it better than I had. In fact, I came back several times, and kept trying, before you pulled this quote, so to claim that I was "Essentially saying...I expect you to fix the problem, but you're crazy if you think I'm going to tell you what it is" is, simply put, something you read into it that was not there.

I have a pet peeve too. Mine is when others jump into a thread for no other purpose than to criticize those actually trying to help. If you thought you had a better way, it would have been better to keep the criticism to yourself, and just do what you thought was better. Cluttering up threads with nothing but criticism of the discussion, isn't very helpful.