A Self-Made-Man girl discovers that life as a man is harder

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Sweetleaf
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16 Jul 2015, 11:44 am

Jacoby wrote:
It shouldn't surprise anyone, men have to initiate relationships which isn't easy under normal circumstances let alone for those on the spectrum. Being pursued while maybe annoying and somewhat burdensome at times is still a position of power and privilege.


Depends on what you are being pursued by...it also leaves you open to being taken advantage of, finding yourself in an abusive situation or other dangers. Also what sort of area one lives in can make a difference.


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nurseangela
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16 Jul 2015, 11:45 am

Jacoby wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Simple as it may sound, "putting yourself out there" has proven well beyond my ability so far.

Jacoby wrote:
Men are the disposable sex, if we cut the male population by half and it wouldn't make a difference and would probably increase the quality of life for the remaining men.


That's what war is for.


Pretty much. I heard someone say that war is inevitable in any country when the ratio of men becomes to high, maybe that's what should really scare people about China.


Getting off the subject a bit....
We talked about this in my IR class. Maybe they should think about letting women lead some of these nations. I think we have too much testosterone running these countries and the main way that men show how strong they are is to fight. Unfortunately, we're not dealing in little fist fights - they're dealing with the big guns (literally). So if they decide to go nuclear (as in crazy), then we all go nuclear.


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nurseangela
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16 Jul 2015, 11:59 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
I like how these posts always go in a direction in which you'd think there are no autistic women...after all, all women are the same even the ones with autism and other neurological and/or mental conditions have it 100 % easy, all they gotta do is look pretty and a viable boyfriend will come along...obviously this is how it is for all women.


Anyways remember there are autistic women and women with other conditions who struggle just as much if not more with relationships than your typical male. And what the f*** is a self made man girl? Did she undergo a sex change...or just dress like a dude....maybe her uh 'costume' wan't very convincing and that has something to do with the difficulties she found in picking up females whilst digusied as a male. Sure historically it has been males who make the first move, that trend can be seen even today...though its not unheard of for a female to initiate anymore...but its been ingrained in society so long its still more or less a 'norm'.

Sure might be hard for your typical autistic male to find a model quality, drop dead gorgeous blonde with lots of friends and an impressive social life that wants them for a boyfriend, but no it is not impossible for autistic males to 'get girlfriends' might not get one that will serve to hide your akwardness and raise your social status by being 'hot' but you could look for someone with some common interests you actually enjoy spending time with or attempt to meet people in venues that cater to your interests.......But of course I know many guys would rather have a drop dead gorgeous blonde with large boobs who dresses sexy and is ready to drop them as soon as something better looking, with more money or offers a better time comes along then someone they really bond with who maybe isn't as visually 'satisfying'. Of course i am generalizing some...but this thread is already full of generalization.


I agree. If men didn't mainly go for looks, women wouldn't be doing all the cosmetic stuff they feel like they have to do in order to compete with other women and it gets exhausting and expensive - highlighted hair, fake nails, boob jobs, high heels, makeup, getting every hair plucked from their body. Men say they like the "natural look". So then how did Marylin Monroe get so popular? And the Victoria Secret Models? Playboy Bunnies?Sports Illustrated swimsuit models. Every guy wants a good girl mixed with a naughty girl in the bedroom. Gotta tell you, it's darn hard to live up to all of that. Society and advertisements are what cause this to happen and it is impossible to live up to.


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goofygoobers
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16 Jul 2015, 12:09 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I like how these posts always go in a direction in which you'd think there are no autistic women...after all, all women are the same even the ones with autism and other neurological and/or mental conditions have it 100 % easy, all they gotta do is look pretty and a viable boyfriend will come along...obviously this is how it is for all women.


Anyways remember there are autistic women and women with other conditions who struggle just as much if not more with relationships than your typical male. And what the f*** is a self made man girl? Did she undergo a sex change...or just dress like a dude....maybe her uh 'costume' wan't very convincing and that has something to do with the difficulties she found in picking up females whilst digusied as a male. Sure historically it has been males who make the first move, that trend can be seen even today...though its not unheard of for a female to initiate anymore...but its been ingrained in society so long its still more or less a 'norm'.

Sure might be hard for your typical autistic male to find a model quality, drop dead gorgeous blonde with lots of friends and an impressive social life that wants them for a boyfriend, but no it is not impossible for autistic males to 'get girlfriends' might not get one that will serve to hide your akwardness and raise your social status by being 'hot' but you could look for someone with some common interests you actually enjoy spending time with or attempt to meet people in venues that cater to your interests.......But of course I know many guys would rather have a drop dead gorgeous blonde with large boobs who dresses sexy and is ready to drop them as soon as something better looking, with more money or offers a better time comes along then someone they really bond with who maybe isn't as visually 'satisfying'. Of course i am generalizing some...but this thread is already full of generalization.


I agree. If men didn't mainly go for looks, women wouldn't be doing all the cosmetic stuff they feel like they have to do in order to compete with other women and it gets exhausting and expensive - highlighted hair, fake nails, boob jobs, high heels, makeup, getting every hair plucked from their body. Men say they like the "natural look". So then how did Marylin Monroe get so popular? And the Victoria Secret Models? Playboy Bunnies?Sports Illustrated swimsuit models. Every guy wants a good girl mixed with a naughty girl in the bedroom. Gotta tell you, it's darn hard to live up to all of that. Society and advertisements are what cause this to happen and it is impossible to live up to.


I completely understand. I feel like I have to be extremely physically attractive for anyone to want or love me. This is why I like weird people. I want someone that's just as quirky as I am, and doesn't give a crap about what's considered hot to other people. In fact, I prefer men with actual feelings and don't mind expressing them in healthy ways. I don't like dumb stereotypes about any sex or gender because it only makes people believe lies. It's taken me a long time to understand that men have feelings too, and I wish it didn't.

Sorry if I seem to be going on a weird tangent. I have a feeling none of what I just typed would make any sense to anyone else except for me.



kraftiekortie
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16 Jul 2015, 12:23 pm

Makes sense to me.



Jacoby
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16 Jul 2015, 12:29 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I like how these posts always go in a direction in which you'd think there are no autistic women...after all, all women are the same even the ones with autism and other neurological and/or mental conditions have it 100 % easy, all they gotta do is look pretty and a viable boyfriend will come along...obviously this is how it is for all women.


Anyways remember there are autistic women and women with other conditions who struggle just as much if not more with relationships than your typical male. And what the f*** is a self made man girl? Did she undergo a sex change...or just dress like a dude....maybe her uh 'costume' wan't very convincing and that has something to do with the difficulties she found in picking up females whilst digusied as a male. Sure historically it has been males who make the first move, that trend can be seen even today...though its not unheard of for a female to initiate anymore...but its been ingrained in society so long its still more or less a 'norm'.

Sure might be hard for your typical autistic male to find a model quality, drop dead gorgeous blonde with lots of friends and an impressive social life that wants them for a boyfriend, but no it is not impossible for autistic males to 'get girlfriends' might not get one that will serve to hide your akwardness and raise your social status by being 'hot' but you could look for someone with some common interests you actually enjoy spending time with or attempt to meet people in venues that cater to your interests.......But of course I know many guys would rather have a drop dead gorgeous blonde with large boobs who dresses sexy and is ready to drop them as soon as something better looking, with more money or offers a better time comes along then someone they really bond with who maybe isn't as visually 'satisfying'. Of course i am generalizing some...but this thread is already full of generalization.



Keep in mind there is like a 4 to 1 male to female ratio on the spectrum but we and you are right that there is a lot more to forming a relationship than just having interested suitors which is an issue we'd all have to deal with once we get to that point. The whole dynamic of inadequacy and ultimately rejection is different between a man and women tho, I don't think there are too many women envious of the male gender role in relationships and that's not a privilege that will ever be given up. Its something that is probably evolutionarily hard wired. I don't like, you might not like it, but it doesn't really matter what we think.

I don't agree with what you are saying about guys having too high of standards, most guys(not all) are probably so intimidated of 'drop dead gorgeous blondes with big boobs' to the point they won't even approach or speak to them. I'd be pretty flattered if pretty much anybody showed interest and I think it would be the same for most guys, you'd have to be repulsive and even then there are a lot of desperate guys. Not something most of us deal with either way.

As for finding someone with common interests in a venue that caters to it, I dunno. Unless you have a really social special interest with a healthy gender ratio then it really isn't possible, I'd always assume they're bombarded and uninterested otherwise. Being rejected in that setting might also drive me away from that interest completely so it is risking a lot. I wish I was 21 when I lived in Wisconsin then I could of gotten into the bar scene which is integral to our state culture, doesn't exist out here except in the most vapid commercialized way. I'm going back to school(hopefully) so if its going to happen any where it will probably be there but I'm not counting on meeting to many women in the networking academy.



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16 Jul 2015, 12:40 pm

I also prefer men who show their emotions as well. I've found that there were too many of the manly men who don't show any emotion except anger, so I turned Gay. Than again, it doesn't really matter if I end up in a relationship or not due to the fact that I'm transgendered.


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16 Jul 2015, 12:44 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Men say they like the "natural look"...


I'll let you in on a secret. Most men have never used make-up, and can't tell it's there unless it was a really bad make-up job. So 'natural' means 'has make-up on, but not a bad make-up job that's obvious'. It's like how women like muscular men that hit the gym, and don't realize many of those men are taking steroids.

goofygoobers wrote:
I completely understand. I feel like I have to be extremely physically attractive for anyone to want or love me. This is why I like weird people. I want someone that's just as quirky as I am, and doesn't give a crap about what's considered hot to other people. In fact, I prefer men with actual feelings and don't mind expressing them in healthy ways. I don't like dumb stereotypes about any sex or gender because it only makes people believe lies. It's taken me a long time to understand that men have feelings too, and I wish it didn't.

Sorry if I seem to be going on a weird tangent. I have a feeling none of what I just typed would make any sense to anyone else except for me.


It does make sense to me. Many people really won't care about you unless you are attractive, because they are primarily interested in improving their own social status. Or, they may not consciously be trying to, but they have been trained to. That's where the term 'basic' comes from - someone (usually a girl, since the term was invented by frat boys) whose primary interest is following social conventions.



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16 Jul 2015, 12:50 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
It shouldn't surprise anyone, men have to initiate relationships which isn't easy under normal circumstances let alone for those on the spectrum. Being pursued while maybe annoying and somewhat burdensome at times is still a position of power and privilege.


Depends on what you are being pursued by...it also leaves you open to being taken advantage of, finding yourself in an abusive situation or other dangers. Also what sort of area one lives in can make a difference.


It's a good point and I'd be very concerned about who my imaginary daughter was dating if she were on the spectrum. That is one thing probably men can't fully appreciate is the predatory side of sexuality and relationships that women have to navigate. My suggestion would be mostly to stay away from rolling with the bad boys and stick with someone boring and smart, obviously that's not 100% but you can avoid a great deal of trouble just with common sense. If you BF has a face tattoo, then you probably should know what you're getting yourself into.



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16 Jul 2015, 1:04 pm

...I seem to recall reading the book of this many years ago . (She went to titty bars , masqueraded as a Catholic religious brother , being accepted as a novice in a monastery , etc.) Why is this being dug up now ?



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16 Jul 2015, 1:44 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
It shouldn't surprise anyone, men have to initiate relationships which isn't easy under normal circumstances let alone for those on the spectrum. Being pursued while maybe annoying and somewhat burdensome at times is still a position of power and privilege.


Depends on what you are being pursued by...

Dosn't 'who' rather than 'what' make more sense. It might also be an issue how diverse those persuing you are.

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it also leaves you open to being taken advantage of, finding yourself in an abusive situation or other dangers.

All of these dangers are present for 'persuers'.



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16 Jul 2015, 1:48 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I like how these posts always go in a direction in which you'd think there are no autistic women...after all, all women are the same even the ones with autism and other neurological and/or mental conditions have it 100 % easy, all they gotta do is look pretty and a viable boyfriend will come along...obviously this is how it is for all women.


Anyways remember there are autistic women and women with other conditions who struggle just as much if not more with relationships than your typical male. And what the f*** is a self made man girl? Did she undergo a sex change...or just dress like a dude....maybe her uh 'costume' wan't very convincing and that has something to do with the difficulties she found in picking up females whilst digusied as a male. Sure historically it has been males who make the first move, that trend can be seen even today...though its not unheard of for a female to initiate anymore...but its been ingrained in society so long its still more or less a 'norm'.




Look, in my mind, and in these discussions, I NEVER consider autistic women at all; why? because they are so minority, same for AS men, they are so statically insignificant when we talk about "women" and "men" - so really...it's futile to include them in every gender discussion.

And I don't get it, why are you so upset about her experiment? It's not perfect, but it's the best experiment of its kind - and she was truly objective - she had her on criticism on the male behaviors as well.

Have you watched the video?


Quote:
And what the f*** is a self made man girl? Did she undergo a sex change...or just dress like a dude....maybe her uh 'costume' wan't very convincing and that has something to do with the difficulties she found in picking up females whilst digusied as a male


Hmm...it wasn't convincing? umm...why? ahh shoulders not broad enough? Not masculine-looking/walk enough? See, you just proved one of her points right there that most women want a manly man, and that what you want too.

I am sure now you haven't watched the video.

Quote:
Sure might be hard for your typical autistic male to find a model quality, drop dead gorgeous blonde with lots of friends and an impressive social life that wants them for a boyfriend, but no it is not impossible for autistic males to 'get girlfriends' might not get one that will serve to hide your akwardness and raise your social status by being 'hot' but you could look for someone with some common interests you actually enjoy spending time with or attempt to meet people in venues that cater to your interests.......But of course I know many guys would rather have a drop dead gorgeous blonde with large boobs who dresses sexy and is ready to drop them as soon as something better looking, with more money or offers a better time comes along then someone they really bond with who maybe isn't as visually 'satisfying'. Of course i am generalizing some...but this thread is already full of generalization.


You know, this is getting old; when guys struggle in dating, you quickly assume they are after models.



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16 Jul 2015, 2:06 pm

Jacoby wrote:
most guys(not all) are probably so intimidated of 'drop dead gorgeous blondes with big boobs' to the point they won't even approach or speak to them.


I've grown more and more used to avoiding physical proximity to any woman. If they fill up your field of view, there's nowhere you can safely let your eyes rest looking at. I usually close my eyes when I need to make some motion with my head which makes my face point at their breasts, waist, crotch, legs, feet or anywhere with too much skin exposed, but this probably just boosts the awkwardness, and may help someone snatch away some of my stuff while I can't see it. What really worries me is that, when I make accidental eye contact with a woman, more and more often the look on her face seems to show the unmistakable disdain only a true pervert must inspire. I feel relieved the few times I see a woman smiling who doesn't stop smiling when my eyes meet hers.


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16 Jul 2015, 2:13 pm

What jacoby said is very true, I would never approach a model-like girl - they are usually taken, and self-centered; and it's no secret that model-like types would want either a model-like guy or a wealthy guy or both. Simply put, I am out of her league.

In fact, she is usually constantly surrounded by male "orbiters" - you know, guys who like to "help her" and "assist her" and give her attention in every way possible, I would just feel like another one of these lapdogs if I approach her.



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16 Jul 2015, 2:54 pm

I agree. There's a woman at the autism meetup I go to who is very glamorous and model-looking, and the men in the group crowd round her and beg for her attention like lapdogs. You see her in the cafe we go to, and some of them are on their knees around her. I may have rejected the teachings of PUAs years ago, but at least they turn men's awareness to that kind of behaviour. I'm pretty sure I've never been like that, at least I hope I haven't.



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16 Jul 2015, 3:28 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
What jacoby said is very true, I would never approach a model-like girl - they are usually taken, and self-centered; and it's no secret that model-like types would want either a model-like guy or a wealthy guy or both. Simply put, I am out of her league.

In fact, she is usually constantly surrounded by male "orbiters" - you know, guys who like to "help her" and "assist her" and give her attention in every way possible, I would just feel like another one of these lapdogs if I approach her.


But if she weren't taken and you had money, you would go for the model type is what you're saying.

The truth of it is that men want looks and women want security (be it money or muscle). It has never changed and it will not change. We should just accept it of each other and move on.


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