How can I ask a girl out in a public place?

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03 Mar 2017, 8:28 am

Even if you like a person's intelligence over a person's looks, you're still "objectifying" them (via the broadened view of the definition of that term).

rdos
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03 Mar 2017, 9:15 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Even if you like a person's intelligence over a person's looks, you're still "objectifying" them (via the broadened view of the definition of that term).

The reason some women like catcalling is because they feel the guy(s) appreciate their looks. It's pretty similar to how many (NT) women want their partners to compliment them for looks too. Then, of course, there are women that don't appreciate this and calls it "objectification" instead. It all becomes pretty weird and inconsistent given how much our culture focuses on women's looks, and how much time, money and effort women spend on their looks.

Alliekit
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03 Mar 2017, 9:18 am

rdos wrote:

Objectified? :roll:

Also, when people use "circular reasoning" or "give me a reference" (without bothering to check for one), I know they already lost the argument. :mrgreen:

Yes if you catchall you are viewing that person as a sexual object rather than a person and harassing them. Hence why people are horrified it it happens to a family member.

Have you heard of burden of proof. If you make a claim it is up to you to support and provide evidence (I. E. Proof). If you fail to provide evidence your claim is invalid. You are committing the logical fallacy of argument through ignorance because it is not up to someone else to disprove your claim.

In that case the one without proof you would be the loser how's that for logic :wink:

rdos
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03 Mar 2017, 9:32 am

Alliekit wrote:

Yes if you catchall you are viewing that person as a sexual object rather than a person and harassing them. Hence why people are horrified it it happens to a family member.

Not at all. Catcalling is a compliment to the woman in the natural environment. It means "you look good". It's also a way to get the attention from a stranger woman. It's Western culture and feminism that has managed to pervert it into something it isn't.

Alliekit wrote:

Have you heard of burden of proof. If you make a claim it is up to you to support and provide evidence (I. E. Proof). If you fail to provide evidence your claim is invalid. You are committing the logical fallacy of argument through ignorance because it is not up to someone else to disprove your claim.

I gave a clear hint of how to find the evidence, and that is all that I will do. If people are not willing to put any effort into an argument, I don't need to feed them any information either. Actually, I have no hope at all that these people will listen to anything I say, much less understand the argument, so it is a useless discussion from my POV.

kraftiekortie
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03 Mar 2017, 9:38 am

Let me put it this way:

Some women don't mind "catcalling" if it's accompanied by more civilized behavior. If it's used as sort of a joke to augment more proper behavior.

They don't like it much if a bunch of strangers catcall them in the street. It makes them scared--and that fear counteracts any positive feelings experienced.

There might be a feeling of feeling "flattered" in some unconscious or subconscious sense----but that feeling is overtaken by that feeling of both fear and irritation at being bothered in the street.

rdos
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03 Mar 2017, 10:12 am

As I already wrote, there is a cultural taboo against contacting stranger women. This is mostly what drive many women's reaction to catcalling including becoming scared (maybe even, predominantly so). This can be proved by comparing women's reactions across cultures, like between the US and Russia, or with other cultures.

Another factor is that we today meet so many people, which we didn't do in the natural environment. This is most likely what irritates some women today. They simply want to be left alone and get too much attention.

AngelRho
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03 Mar 2017, 10:18 am

rdos wrote:

Alliekit wrote:

Yes if you catchall you are viewing that person as a sexual object rather than a person and harassing them. Hence why people are horrified it it happens to a family member.

Alliekit wrote:

I have objections aplenty to much of feminism, but on this point they are exactly right. It's a reduction of women to mere rags and strips them of their humanity. In practice, it's not a celebration of femininity but is rather harassment and threatening.

I will agree that it's largely a cultural perception. Catcalling will appeal to a certain type of woman of, likely, similar or equivalent social station as those perpetrating the behavior. Girls like that don't see those men as threats and enjoy the attention, particularly if they already know the men doing this. Women are mostly fearful of this kind of behavior, and for good reason. These are not the kinds of men they want to spend any time with, and often these men don't have their best interests at heart.

rdos
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03 Mar 2017, 1:25 pm

AngelRho wrote:

rdos wrote:

Alliekit wrote:

Yes if you catchall you are viewing that person as a sexual object rather than a person and harassing them. Hence why people are horrified it it happens to a family member.

Alliekit wrote:

Well, the cultural perception doesn't work as it is intended (protecting women from predatory men). That's because it is not the men with bad intentions that stop doing catcalling, but the men that think it is a fun activity, and want women to appreciate and enjoy it. It is even worse because when a culture equals harmless catcalling with sexual harassment, those with bad intentions will step-up their activities because they are judged the same regardless if they do catcalling, scare them, do inappropriate touching or anything else that is "only sexual harassment".

Also, the cultural perception that men should never try to make contact with stranger women certainly is not protecting women from predatory men. Rapists and sexual harassers don't particularly care if it is ok to contact a stranger woman or not. What this perception mostly does is it to stop well-intended contact attempts, that in no way is adaptive or any good.

AngelRho
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03 Mar 2017, 2:05 pm

rdos wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

rdos wrote:

Alliekit wrote:

Yes if you catchall you are viewing that person as a sexual object rather than a person and harassing them. Hence why people are horrified it it happens to a family member.

Alliekit wrote:

So...basically, you're ok with sexual harrassment.

rdos
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03 Mar 2017, 2:18 pm

AngelRho wrote:

So...basically, you're ok with sexual harrassment.

Never said that...

AngelRho
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03 Mar 2017, 2:34 pm

rdos wrote: