Why do feminists say men are not entitled to SEX!?

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TwilightPrincess
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17 Dec 2019, 6:41 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The New Oxford American Dictionary defines feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.”

That’s how I would define it myself. There’s nothing inherently wrong with such a concept, and I’m puzzled as to why it riles people up on here. Many of my professors in college were and are feminists.

The problem with feminism based on the definition given here is that it presupposes that all inequality that exists between the sexes is faced by women. With this framework, any inequality faced by men is neglected.


If you have a problem with the definition, then you don’t need to use it.


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TwilightPrincess
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17 Dec 2019, 6:42 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
All women are soooo eeeeevil. Why else would we be able to bleed for several days each month and not die? :twisted:


Witchcraft :twisted:


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AquaineBay
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17 Dec 2019, 7:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The New Oxford American Dictionary defines feminism as "the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes."...
"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." -- Clay Shirk, writer and teacher

"Demands for equality for women are threats to men's self-esteem and sense of sexual turf." -- Alice S. Rossi, feminist and sociologist


I have a question: what do women be referring to when they say privilege? As a man I never felt privileged in my life over a woman at all.


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that1weirdgrrrl
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17 Dec 2019, 11:22 pm

My comment is irrelevant


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The Grand Inquisitor
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18 Dec 2019, 12:12 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The New Oxford American Dictionary defines feminism as “the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.”

That’s how I would define it myself. There’s nothing inherently wrong with such a concept, and I’m puzzled as to why it riles people up on here. Many of my professors in college were and are feminists.

The problem with feminism based on the definition given here is that it presupposes that all inequality that exists between the sexes is faced by women. With this framework, any inequality faced by men is neglected.


If you have a problem with the definition, then you don’t need to use it.

The problem I have is that the definition seems to be accurate. That's partially why I don't identify myself as a feminist.



CockneyRebel
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18 Dec 2019, 12:26 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
In the 60s and 70s, there was feminism. Today, there is man-hating. Having said that, I don't think that anybody's entitled to sex.


I’m a feminist, and I don’t hate men. Currently, my closest friends are men.


I apologize. I wasn't talking about you. You're the exception. You're a Sweet Pea.


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CurlyHairedGirl
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18 Dec 2019, 12:59 am

AquaineBay wrote:
I have a question: what do women be referring to when they say privilege? As a man I never felt privileged in my life over a woman at all.


Privilege is partly defined by not having negative experiences in your life that cut off your learning experiences or opportunities.

When I was in high school, the head of the science department didn't tell me about an internship "because he didn't think I'd be interested." I found out through an article in the newspaper, but it was too late to apply that year. I applied the following year and got in.

You've never had a coworker tell you that you shouldn't be working in your job and that you should be at home raising children.

You've never had a group of coworkers of the opposite gender frequently bond over shared interests that were common to their gender, and then realize that the boss favored the people he/she spent time with, and realized that because you were left out, you wouldn't be considered as strongly for interesting job tasks and that other people would be.

You've never been told that people of your gender can't be good at something you are good at.

You have a lot less worries when walking or driving alone late at night. There are some things that won't happen to you (rape) and people are less likely to rob you because men on average are bigger and more muscular.

You don't have to worry about people making constant uncomfortable remarks about your appearance, either positive or negative. Think of it as being a target of constant bullying from people who just see you walking down the street and don't even know you, but think they have the right to bully you.

You don't have to spend an extra half an hour to an hour a day on your personal appearance. Maintaining long hair and doing makeup takes time. And that 30-60 minutes could have been spent taking care of yourself or studying to get ahead in your career.

You've never been in meetings where what you say isn't taken as seriously because of your gender and where people talk over you.

You are able to buy the same type of clothing (say button down shirts, or pants, or coats) at a better quality and lower price than the opposite gender. Your haircuts cost less. Products aimed for your gender aren't pink and more expensive.

Studies have shown that if a man and a women both go to car dealerships, and use identical bargaining strategies, the man will get better prices for buying a car.



Amity
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18 Dec 2019, 1:22 am

Interesting reading!
I believe that in certain parts of America the need for feminism in it's original sense, for equality is very valid. Not to mention many other countries where a lack of feminism is just a standard part of their culture.

In Europe and Australia for example I sense that today most women enjoy the fruits of 1st and 2nd wave feminism.

Context is important, as WP is a cultural mosaic.



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18 Dec 2019, 1:30 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Apart from being an angry incel who likes to engage in personal attacks and likens his personal advances towards women to Sméagol from Lord of the Rings, I’m sure he’s absolutely dreamy. :P


I am sure he is,
"My precious". :mrgreen:



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18 Dec 2019, 1:43 am

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
The problem I have is that the definition seems to be accurate. That's partially why I don't identify myself as a feminist.

When I was younger I identified as a feminist.
I find the whole thing too confusing these days.
It is a much more complicated world than it was 50 years ago.

My special interests, these days, are freedom of speech and thought,
And exercising my big virtual mouth online. :mrgreen:
The women, here in Australia, are "big enough and ugly enough to fend for themselves" without my help anyway. :tongue: :wink:



magz
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18 Dec 2019, 2:00 am

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
I have a question: what do women be referring to when they say privilege? As a man I never felt privileged in my life over a woman at all.


Privilege is partly defined by not having negative experiences in your life that cut off your learning experiences or opportunities.

When I was in high school, the head of the science department didn't tell me about an internship "because he didn't think I'd be interested." I found out through an article in the newspaper, but it was too late to apply that year. I applied the following year and got in.
I was sent to various science-related things by my teachers and it was obvious for them to suggest it to me.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
You've never had a coworker tell you that you shouldn't be working in your job and that you should be at home raising children.
Indeed, I was never told such things. However, when I started to actually raise children, they accepted more absence because of it.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
You've never had a group of coworkers of the opposite gender frequently bond over shared interests that were common to their gender, and then realize that the boss favored the people he/she spent time with, and realized that because you were left out, you wouldn't be considered as strongly for interesting job tasks and that other people would be.
no such experience.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
You've never been told that people of your gender can't be good at something you are good at.
Maybe I have been told, I don't remember. If someone told me, they quickly realized how wrong they were.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
You have a lot less worries when walking or driving alone late at night. There are some things that won't happen to you (rape) and people are less likely to rob you because men on average are bigger and more muscular.
I walked at night the strangest places. My brother got more assaults than me, despite being obviously bigger and stronger. Attacking a woman is considered low even for the local lowlifes.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
You don't have to worry about people making constant uncomfortable remarks about your appearance, either positive or negative. Think of it as being a target of constant bullying from people who just see you walking down the street and don't even know you, but think they have the right to bully you.
Yep, I don't worry about them. Making remarks about appearence of a stranger is extremely uncommon in my culture.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
You don't have to spend an extra half an hour to an hour a day on your personal appearance. Maintaining long hair and doing makeup takes time. And that 30-60 minutes could have been spent taking care of yourself or studying to get ahead in your career.
I don't wear makeup and I wear my hair in a ponytail. Never had any problems because of it.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
You've never been in meetings where what you say isn't taken as seriously because of your gender and where people talk over you.
No such experience.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
You are able to buy the same type of clothing (say button down shirts, or pants, or coats) at a better quality and lower price than the opposite gender. Your haircuts cost less. Products aimed for your gender aren't pink and more expensive.
I cut my hair on my own and I dress in outdoor stores. I have a few elegant outfits hanging in my wardrobe and they didn't cost more than my husband's suits.
Actually, my tailored wedding dress cost less than my husband's wedding suit.

CurlyHairedGirl wrote:
Studies have shown that if a man and a women both go to car dealerships, and use identical bargaining strategies, the man will get better prices for buying a car.
I'm not in the branch of car dealership so I have no idea.

I've read that post-communist states have it better when it comes to gender equality. Possibly.
Now you see why I claim that feminism has done enough for me, I guess.


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magz
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18 Dec 2019, 2:13 am

Amity wrote:
Interesting reading!
I believe that in certain parts of America the need for feminism in it's original sense, for equality is very valid. Not to mention many other countries where a lack of feminism is just a standard part of their culture.

In Europe and Australia for example I sense that today most women enjoy the fruits of 1st and 2nd wave feminism.

Context is important, as WP is a cultural mosaic.

Eastern Europe here. You're probably right.


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