Can shyness/quietness ever be attractive to females?

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Take a look at what you've said. Do that slow 360 you harped on about. You might find that that is the case for trying to discuss things with you.

...which is why this is rather laughable. You've made it quite clear that you have much to learn, yet you have pressed on with claims that you know all...on this matter. You should really start writing some books on the subject, there's some experts that need your help, since not even they know everything.

50% is a nice number, how exactly did you come up with it? How about defining what those specific "other brain mechanisms that lie under the surface of that" are? It is rather easy to make claims when you don't say much of anything. If you don't say much, there's little that can be wrong, just as there's little that's truly correct. It is a nice performance, nonetheless.

Or I could go back to where you laughably say that all women want an alpha male, because they can't defend themselves. You are aware of spousal abuse, yes? Are you really under the impression that it is always the man abusing the woman? In the cases where it is the other way around...wouldn't the woman be quite adept at defending herself, and then some?
This is why there's been a consistent definition of beauty through the ages, right? Also, all people are attracted to the same body types, consistently, without deviation. Oh...wait...that's not the case for either of those. If your little example here was given on what you've been emphasizing, perhaps the smell of sweat off of what nature would consider a "healthy and ideal mate," then perhaps you wouldn't have shot yourself in the foot here.
I doubt it.

I haven't read this thread but as I have noticed a person in real life, recently, having arguments similar to: most women want an alpha male, it isn't exactly like that, but similar, which is based on experience, people having a bad experience during youth or adolescence and it seems to shape their beliefs and views in a way, to make them convinced, I talked to this person about some issues but he won't change his view. Maybe I should make a new thread about it.

That'd be cool. It sounds interesting.

I like your custom rank, by the way. It is very creative!

Sometimes things like shyness just end up being off putting. The key is to make is romantic.

Two things that will attract a woman are masculinity and romance. The shyness factor, properly played, can be used to make it like a fantasy.

No, that's literally it. That and ongoing experience that seems to show the same. I think the real trouble though, there are a lot of people who'd be attracted to each other and be great for each other but it doesn't mean much of anything if they can't get past each other's initial barriers and guards - the easiest thing for anyone to slip on.

Something kinda stupid just happened tonight when I was out at a local bar. I was with two good friends, a couple. A few of the nurses and such that work with them (they both work at a local hospital) were there. As it stands one of their friends was there. She's 23, fairly cute but definitely in an alternative and intelligent sort of way - so yeah, she's shy, she's guarded, and when talked to about guys she's reiterated that she thinks we're all out for sex (we're supposed to be, sadly, which is the paradigm that's crushing her and crushing me both).

My friends mentioned this, we went over to talk to them, sadly my guy friend was a bit too lit off the liquor so he talked me up to her more than a little too much - while I was still there. I did get her number but still, it felt like it was forced out of her and I still have no idea if I'd want to call her yet. His girlfriend is the one that knows her at least, and I probably wouldn't want to call her until she'd talked to her just because - she even mentioned this and I agreed, when he gets that involved he's pushing people away, its like "What kind of guy needs that much build up from his friends?". Well, it came whether I asked for it or not and I tried to stay as despondent to it as I could.

Still, I think that's the biggest thing that seems to be a problem, especially with like meets like, everyone has their guard up and getting through that guard practically takes a miracle. As for running game, everyone's seen it a million times and women seem to be automatically wary of most guys to a degree anyway - something that's understandable, a**holes make it happen and they'll continue to make it happen. Personally though I'm still really unsure just how much of that bad experience is them taking a) what comes easy for them off the start because he's breaking down the barriers and leaving her with little or no work and b). its what her friends, the in crowd, and society implore that she does. If she's a little bit insecure about her own self in that sense, ie. has been judged hard in the past and has owned that judgment, its a small wonder that its so hard for a good guy to be a good guy and get through all that. a**holes leave a huge pile of wreckage, its what they do.

On another note my buddy's girlfriend and I were both talking to a girl who was a bit on the harder side, you could tell she'd partied a lot and had been through a lot, real hard around the edges and anytime I mentioned something she kept kind of putting it like "Your a guy, back off, all guys are a**holes". My friend actually ended up telling her "Hey, he's one of the few guys I know who's stand up, I'd hook him up with anyone." Took a while for her to really take her at her word on that, I'm used to dealing with a lot of girls who are on that page as well and I usually get along with them fine just because I'm not the sort to f' with em, but still - its funny to see just how everyone's realities get so skewed and jacked up just by the realities of our world's dating scene and the darwinian need for confidence to be god, for alpha to be god, and for anyone who doesn't feel the same way to beat on themselves until they can find away to agree with that. So, its partly gut level instinct but I think the rest is peer and societal coercion. Same reason, again, why two great people can meet each other and very easily block each other off just out of their own trust issues (trust issues which have come to be there in the first place for very good reason) when after all if society hadn't jammed them into places that didn't fit them they would have had a much better chance of hitting it off.

It just seems like alpha really calls the shots on societal norms and whether your a square peg, a triangle peg, an octagon peg, you'll be jammed into a square hole. They'll splinter and smash away every other last bit of you till your just that - something else forced and coerced to be just like them. I think there's a degree where one can maintain a healthy balance of both. Like with myself, I pushed myself to be as NT as I could because its an NT world and because, I really just didn't like who I was or how I presented myself as an aspie. Its sad though that when I can peel that back and work the other way to recover that ground other people are still quite often to scarred to do the same, just like its equally as sad when aspies say "Why can't you just love yourself for who you are".....rofl....this AS/NT hybrid IS me, its who I've always been, its always been whats at the bottom of my heart even before the bullies in grade school came into play, and you'll just have to deal with that. Not that I can't get along with everyone and play to my best ability, its just sad when it feels like most people haven't overcome it, haven't realized what keeps them from truly being happy, and learning to where the front (when necessary) while re-enriching themselves and getting themselves to a place where if the right person comes along, they're healed enough to let them in.

Now the present situation at hand, I can't say anything good or bad, she seemed really cool, but still - I'm used to having those situations where mutual attraction isn't enough and to where shy and introverted women are beaten up enough to where any effort that I take to show my better nature still pulls at their suspicions and it messes with their heads. I feel bad for them, I feel bad for humanity, I'd just love to think that as people hit their later 20's and I get older as well - as informationally enlightened as our society is - that women of that caliber will be able to throw off the yoke, especially being out of high school recover their true shape and form and reconcile it to who they became to make life work under group pressure. I can't remember which specific school of psychology said this but it makes a lot of sense - when your 18, your the farthest you'll every be from your bottom line true genetic self, the rest of life is reconciling your true self against the societally created self which is there to deal with other people, their assaults, their drama, etc. I'd like to think that the internet, the abundances of philosophies, the abundance of ideas available to people, will lead us more and more into being able to recover that knowledge before we're all through 2 or 3 kids and a couple divorces - its not right to anyone or their happiness and feeling precocious in taking that action is kinda lonely, I'd love to see other people try it to a greater degree.

Those are very subjective terms though. They've been used to describe so many types of behavior, I'm not sure the words have retained much meaning that can be universally understood. What do you mean by them?

I prefer individuals who are introverted and don't mind a lack of self-confidence, as long as they can still make up their mind and decide for themselves what they think/feel. Quiet people are far less stressful to me, though I would like to be able to discuss shared interests.

I'm pretty introverted and I prefer to do things that don't involve interacting with a lot of people, like playing video games or going on a walk. I can be pretty conversational when there's a small group of people, but anymore beyond that and I have trouble taking in what's going on.

That being said... I haven't read all of this topic, but from my experience I don't think there are many females who approach introverted/quiet guys, unless they're really attracted/attractive to them. For someone like me, that's happened maybe three times in my life, and the second being that I wasn't into the person that was attracted to me. Most of my dates that I have been out on have been with people that I approached and asked out later on, not the other way around.

I am really shy and quiet and in my experiences girls prefer to have me as their sweet friend who will help them with whatever they need and just end up using me because I start trusting them. But with my job i really dont meet many girls since I pretty much only work with men being a carpenter.

Same here, I really hate that it's weird that some by no means all women thunk just because you're more reserved your not a man. exaggeration but you get my point seriously i need ot find myself a woman just as reserved as myself. I'm pretty quiet but i have no troubles conversing when i want to. so through my experience not yet but I'm sure there are women out there who find being quiet and reserved attractive.

I have a theory (but as a guy, it's probably not all there...

I think if you take shyness, and pass it off as mysterious, some women are going to want to 'solve that mystery'.. Don't go overboard, but some hints that there's something under that shy exterior may get you some attention...not with every woman, of course, but more than before...just a thought.

Women, feel free to correct me..

Hope its not gonna bug you that a guy's putting his two cents in on this - it won't work, just in the sense that if you look innocent you look innocent, if you have that naturally mysterious air then thats what you have. When you try to do something that subtle and that ingrained its not something that your nervous system can work out. Its a look, its a vibe, and there's 100x more physical and neurological calculus that goes into that than there is than knowing what to say, how to say it, etc. Not that outward image isn't something you want to polish, but the physical is much harder to master than the mental.

I'll back you up on that one, techstep. You said it better than I could have.

The moment you start trying to give off a vibe you don't own, your new vibe will have a hint of "something's amiss here."

Dracula's silence on the blatantly 'unbiological' (not conducive to maximising the chances of passing on your genes) behaviours of many people speaks volumes; obviously he can't refute it. Even animals sometimes behave unbiologically (killing healthy offspring, for example). He admits that there are neurological variations among people, but somehow they can have no effect on what attracts people (even though some neurological variations, such as epillepsy, are blatantly 'unbiological'). Are most women attracted to the stereotypical alpha male, and is that because of the selfish gene? Sure. But to say that it is 100% (including the lesbians?) is ridiculous. Again, if we were total, complete slaves to biology, unprotected, vaginal heterosexual sex would be the only form of sex that would exist. And, if only due to recent mutations, not all genes around are 'logical' in a biological way (surely genetic diseases are sufficient proof of this), so there is no reason why genes in a minority of women can't predispose them to something other than the stereotypical alpha male. I just don't buy this 'my genes made me do it' thing.

no

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