LADY'S: What's so attractive about a jerk?

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I did not intend to patronize you at all, and I apologize if you took offense. You have to understand, however, that mean people have f***ed me over. I'm not just going to sit back and let it happen.

I swear, I feel like I'm in Hell sometimes.

Can I ask a question, though? How was that patronizing?

I agree entirely. I do agree that there is something to the idea - it does happen in real life, but definitely not to the widespread extent you would think it happened from reading posts on WP (and maybe other forums too?). To me, it's always been a minority event - something strange that occasionally happens (and unfortunate for the girls it happens to) but not something for the majority to get upset over, unless they're feeling *sorry* for the girls. Getting upset over it because of it somehow substantially reducing the dating pool, and *hating* the poor girls in question who either got duped (which can happen to anyone) or have psychological issues (I would expect more understanding of that from this forum, of all places!) is absurd in itself, and even more absurd when from observation it seems to effect only one in 30 girls, if that.

Courtship is not clear-cut, full stop. And that's how life is. It's because there are so many tangled thoughts and emotions involved it is impossible for dating to be like going to the bakery and buying a loaf of bread. And girls are not loaves of bread; they cannot be brought or sold, and they are nobodies property and nobody has a "right" to have one in the way you have a right to the basic necessity of food. It saddens me that I even need to say this, but for some small minority on this forum I think it needs to be said, and they need to listen for their own good. I'm going to post this issue up as a topic in itself just so that hopefully some of the members I'm thinking of will read it (don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against any of the members on this site, or am trying to be nasty to anyone, but I think some of the members are confused about what a woman is (that a woman is a person like themself) and that's a sad way to be).

No I was not offended but thanks anyway. But, just wanted to point out how saying things along those lines is often taken for patronising.



Yes. It was patronising because as a women I do not care about getting approval from random people such as yourself and when you say things like "you deserve a pat on the back" it makes it sound like you think you are qualified to give "approval" and congratulations to women who date people you do not think are jerks. You are most definitely not.

Now we're starting to get somewhere. √ Trying to define what a 'true' jerk is. CrinklyCrustcean defined what may be the majority of men, so maybe the problem is that jerks are ubiquitous. MikeH106's definition is descriptive but it is hard to prove that someone is like that, because only a very small minority would actually admit to that. The "bigoted" part of sunshower's description is good because it is an adjective that narrows down a quality, but the "a**hole" part of the description is about as descriptive as the word 'jerk'.



Or it might just be that acting like a jerk makes women think that they're larger because it stands to reason that a guy with impressive size wouldn't feel the need to try as hard to be nice. Women think this because female brains are stupider than male brains and when you really get down to it, all women are just a bunch of shallow skanks that just want big c...

What's this? There is a throng of women around my window taking their clothes off. Aw man, apparently they sensed that I was being a jerk. I'm too tired right now. How am I going to get rid of a dozen naked hot women that are chanting 'you're so sexy, GoatOnFire'? It seems that women really like jerks. It's like they can smell jerks from a mile away and they flock to them. I'm going to have to try to be nicer to avoid this in the future.

(For those who can't tell, aside from the first sentence that was pure sarcasm, so don't crusade against me for being 'sexist')

Last edited by GoatOnFire on 24 Jun 2009, 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Edit: double post

I think you just made my day, GoatOnFire.

Ok, let me be more helpful then A "jerk" is usually some combination of these traits;

Bully, bigoted, racist, sexist, no empathy, insulting, self-serving at the cost of others happiness, a user (eg. uses other people in ways that hurt them for his own interests), finds comedy in others suffering, likes insulting people, puts others down, no empathy, narrow/closed minded, narcissistic.

Helpful?

Hector: Yes! You hit the nail right on the head. I love that kind of reasoning/insight.

I do try to respect your feelings. Maybe I should have said, "Give yourself a pat on the back."

I want you to understand something, though. My life has been HELL, partly because of bullies, partly due to my own actions, and partly due to the actions of women. I've never had a girlfriend, and all I've been able to think about sometimes is how I got pushed by a girl in sixth grade.

When I give you approval, I'm at least attempting positive reinforcement. If you take that away from me, you leave two things: total submission (ouch, ouch, the pain! what do I do?) and negative reinforcement. I'm sure you wouldn't like the latter.

I also want you to understand that I'm trying to meet you halfway, here. I want you to love life and be happy. But if sadness and torture of the less fit become a part of your plan for society, you bet I'm going to be mad.

That's what I always thought to be a jerk, and yes they make better providers and protectors than a "nice guy".


Exactly.


No such animal exists.


Exactly. It comes down to natural selection and the animal instinct.


Indeed. While they may seem objectionable to many of you, they display the traits of a strong, powerful, charismatic leader that women look for. When a girl sees a jerk bullying someone, it registers in her subconscious that he is a "real man", and can meet her needs. She doesn't actually care about who they are victimising, or the ins and outs. Life is all about winners v losers, and as the jerk is typically the winner, that is all a female looks for. Of course not all alpha males are "jerks" - not by a long shot, but untimately it comes down to winner v loser, stronger v weaker, dominant v submissive etc etc. It is nothing personal, but simply natural selection at work.

i still do not know what "jerk" is exactly. i have a preconceived notion, but i looked up the definition and it is not what i thought. the definition i found was "a dull stupid fatuous person"
hmm.
that is not what i thought a jerk was. i grew up and live in australia, and australians do not use that word much. i always thought it was an american way of saying "d*ckhead". (i also equated "jerk" with "jerking off" which is kind of like a "w*nker" as well.

so with that preconception, i defined "jerk" as a person mainly characterized by selfishness, and also by a sense of superiority and entitlement (not necessarily narcissist (good song title?)).
so this is what i think is a classic jerk example:
i am sitting in a bar with a nice girl who is a long term friend of mine and she is pretty.
then a group of rowdy fellows comes in and they are all bawdy and macho and competitive and they are on the prowl for some "action".
the alpha male of the group sees my friend and comes and bluntly says "hey babe f*ck this "drop kick" (me) off and come an' have some fun with a real man"

or they may claim credit for something you did and they know you know it and they wink like a "winner" at you.

they walk on people who they think are scaffolding for their procedures.

they are some of my definitions (i can not define all my notions of "jerk" because it would take too long).

i notice that a lot of girls seem to pay more attention to people like "jerks" (as i defined) because they seem to admire their self assurance. they seem to think that those guys have much bravery and strength because if they did not have it, they would be too timid to behave the way they do.

because it looks like "jerks" always win (to some girls), then those girls want to be on the winning team so they take the jerks side.

also, jerks are not as common as "nice" (timid) people, so their rarity makes them more sought after. people always notice "jerks" before they notice everyone else in the room. "jerks" stand out.
sometimes they are interesting to watch if they are extreme jerks (like borderline psychopaths).

when i watched for a little while an australian "big brother" series for a few days, (yes i got interested in "big brother" because it is like NT's in a fish bowl and they can not see me inspecting them) i was most interested to hear words from the mouths of people who i thought were jerks. it is like a sour pleasure to witness the stuff that comes out of their minds.

there was one fellow who was an extreme jerk and he used to admire himself in front of the mirror for ages and spend eons in the bathroom and he went to the fridge and got a carton of milk from it and just drank straight from the carton and burped like a slob. it was everyones milk but he did not think of it because he was an animal.
as much as i "hated" him, i could not help but look forward to more examples of him being a d*ckhead.
after a few days of watching, i knew him more than any other inmate.

this may be why the jerks in social situations go home with lots of girls. because they watch him only, and they do not see the "nice guys" sitting back quietly and not "stealing" any attention.

but that is not all girls. my friends who are girls are just as derisive of that style of being as i am.

but girls who have had their appetite filled for "jerkdom" are usually not willing to stick around with jerks because things did not turn out as they expected, and they are sick of them and find other people who are unconcerned about their ego's to be refreshing and liberating. they realize "jerks" are not winners. they are "thieves" and they eventually have to relinquish all they gain through usurping things they wanted throughout their life.

my best friend who is a girl (excepting my girlfriend "tammy" who is not very smart) called "sonia" has a boyfriend that is a "jerk".
she knew him before she knew me. she has known him for 12 years and me for 10.

she is very sick of him and she stays with him out of habit, and because she is poor and he is a builder who earns a reasonable amount of money.
he is very uncouth and calls her a "fat pig" if she gains a few kilograms (she is only 72 kg and she is 5'10" so she is slim). he gets very drunk every night and wants to "do it" with her whether she wants to or not. he is tall and handsome and brash etc, and that is why she fell for him at first. also, he has very many other female admirers, so sonia felt privileged among other girls in that she was the "chosen one".
the other girls would have no idea how this "jim" character is "at home".

an example of his jerkiness is this. it is disgusting sorry. she told me about one morning when he got up at 6 am and went and had a shower. she was deeply sleepy in bed (a mattress on the floor). she was half asleep when "jim" came out after his shower.

he squatted down with his anus directly over her sleeping face and farted about a liter of vile smelling gas (a methyl mercaptan tinged and hydrogen sulfide laced volume). his bum flaps apparently "clabbered" and rattled and sprayed droplets of "water" on her face as well. (it was his idea of a joke)
then he said "g'd mornin' babe" as she emerged rapidly into wakefulness and he offered his "phallus" for her to get to work on orally before he got a bit of cold pizza from his rusty fridge and left for his day of laboring.

she is sick of him very much.

she wants to be my girlfriend but i do not want girlfriends as i could never leave tammy.
i see tammy only once per week and sonia comes here twice per week when tammy is not here.

what i am trying to say is that girls that seem to like jerks will get taught a lesson after extended experience with jerks.

jerks will always lose in the end, because they steal what they have with no entitlement.

whatever i can not really talk on the level of you guys but i try anyway.

a jerk can be predated upon by a nice guy if the intent is there.
"nice guys" may simply be well behaved and cordial. it is not a "given" that they are shy and retiring wimps.

if the jerk is stupid and the nice guy is smart, then the jerk will perish in a life and death situation and the "nice guy" will prevail.

"nice guys" may be complacent, and do not need to display their "feathers" to the world in order to instill fear and respect.
"nice guys" are usually "nice" because they have achieved what they wanted without being a pr*ck to get it. "nice guys" may have more talents that give them deserved rewards that they are content about owning without resorting to piracy.

if i was on a deserted island with a small group of people and there was no chance of us being rescued, and the "law" would never catch up with me, then my first chore would be to assess the "jerks" if they really were jerks.

i would assess what their motives are over time, and if i felt that they were going to steal my self attained produce for their survival, or interfere with my intentions, i would eliminate them and they would never know what hit them.

they may seem strong and sure when they have no challengers in normal society, but i would think of them as rogue animals that need to be culled if i was thrown into a small world with them where their existence affected mine.

never under estimate a quiet person who seems unruffled.

no matter how cocky you are, there are seemingly placid people who can cause your demise if you upset them.

Yes. Adjectives are very good. And that's a fair number of adjectives.

Apparently politicians are generally jerks.

Just as a side remark, it is a fallacy to attempt to infer from the principles of evolution that 'stronger' men are naturally sought, even when fitness indicators are concerned. If everything works out well, there need be no 'pecking order' either (what are you, a bunch of sadists?) and human life will sustain itself happily without torturing Mr. Stupid Guy.

For more detailed accounts of evolution, sexual selection, and fallacies in the subjects, you can read my essays, Darwinism and Sexual Selection and The Weaknesses of Competition for Individual Strength and the Evolutionary Value of Small Size.

Jerks are normal society. They are most numerous in the population, they stand at the top of the pile and set the mainstream standards, ergo they are normal society.


It is a bulletproof fact that stronger men make superior mating partners. All scientific research has proven this, and it is evident throughout life.


The pecking order always exists, in every walk of life. Humans on the whole need someone inferior to bully in order to justify themselves to the greater good.


Interesting articles. Re your point ", two small against one large, or three against five, or thirteen against eight", this seems to work in action when gangs attack lone individuals etc. Natural selection in action again maybe?

Incorrect usage of apostrophe in title.
Thread is invalidated.

That's funny. I hear women all the time saying how they hate jerks, so I started doing a little experiment. Yes, I am the kinda person that will tell people anything, and don't care what they think.

One day I will go up to a girl and pretend to be the "nice guy" and ask her out, and tell her how much I admire her, and pretend to be all sweet to her...all in a serious manner of course. She'll get all standoffish, weirded out, and have this "eww, get away from me" look on her face.

The next day I will go up to the same girl, and make fun of her, argue with her, be rude to her, and basically treat her like dirt. You know what, she actually liked it, and had a big smile on her face.