Do women really understand guys as much as they think?

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I guess I threw down nice because that tends to be the catch-all for guys who are a bit alternative (I think alternative is the real rejection reason - which is really what I was talking about with being jammed through a narrow filter on evaluation). Usually 'nice' isn't what they start out thinking about themselves and even self-proclaimed nice guys didn't just pull that evaluation of self out of nowhere, they keep hearing it from other people in conjunction with "I'd so date you if....(random roadblock or obligation)". While I don't think the connection is completely direct you can probably imagine how it would scew your reality to think that way if you were getting hit with "your so sweet" and "I'd date you if" at least once every couple months and almost in the same paragraph of conversation most of the time. Bitter, mysogenistic, I don't think its any of that as much as they're trying to make sense of what's happening to em and why they aren't in control of this aspect of their lives.

This is a problem with society in general. Society has this narrow view of what people are useful to society. If you're too nice you get shafted. If you murder someone you get free satellite TV, at least here in Canada.

"Nice" is like saying "I couldn't be bothered think of a legitimate word to use". I'd hate to be called nice.

"Nice" has a deeper definition than that. It refers to people who are caring, listen, give flowers, and treat their girlfriend/boyfriend really well.

the only sweeping generalization you can make is that men don't understand women and women don't understand men. nuff said.

The thing with me is that I don't make a point to be "nice". I just generally tend to see the best in people and am full of nice things to say, and it's only when people do something rub me the wrong way that I start to really see bad in them. When I compliment someone, it's never dishonest in the least bit. It's not like I can't be honest and provide criticism when I feel it's right. And I do love to listen to people and help them with their problems.

But, nevertheless, I guess girls are going to misinterpret my "niceness" as an attempt to get into their pants. So, I guess it is in my best interest to hold back on my urge to say all the positive thoughts that come to my head.

You could also say that men don't understand other men, and women don't understand other women. Or just sum it all up by saying that people don't understand other people. Or themselves, in a lot of cases.

BTW, did you get Cliff's interview cd in the mail yet? It seems like while some of the other interviews seemed a little bit scathing at times, this one actually lended a lot of hope IMO. That and some of the things he mentioned (especially what nonattention means) were real interesting. Yeah, all these guys were nerds or shy guys who became 'dating gurus' just because they had a caddle prod to their backs from life in much the same way that we've sorted out a lot of issues most people don't just because we started off from a place that we were forced to confront them - all well and good and yeah, I was inspired in the past but still felt "they had a rough go of this and it took em a while but still, not havine AS they still didn't have that neurological glass ceiling staying their progress". Well, from what this guy's saying, especially since he's not emphasizing flash and game as much as confidence, its almost saying that pretty much any of us could do it too and as long as we were confident and dynamic individuals the rote social skills or your executive functioning over them may not need to be completely perfect.

Well said,

There is nothing like screwing up your life to realise what mistakes you have done and how you become a better person.

I'm not actually a David DeAngelo subscriber, but I get his free newsletter no less. I'm going one expense at a time...this month I have a subscription to match.com.

Midge said "and misunderstandings are almost always the result of miscommunication" This is so true, many good relationships have been killed because of this, only later people say "If only I had said this or that." Also men and woman should be looked at as individuals not as the same rules for each gender, a layed back man trying to intrigue the woman by being not to pushy, with the ultimate goal of sleeping with her is just the same as the woman playing hard to get with the same intentions. I think understanding men or a man is just as hard as understanding woman or a woman, we are all different and walk to a different beat at sometime in our lifes.

The nice thing about attraction itself and dynamics of relation is that direct verbal communication and metacommunication even more so tend to flow directly against the power of the moment for a lot of people. On the flipside I think metacommunication should probably be fine once you've at least been with something for a while but still, it really needs to be used sparingly and you still have to play a lot of games, little bits of emotional keep-away, etc. just to keep the spark lit.

Women generally have no reason to need or want to understand me. I only know 3 women, and either they are not asking my any questions or they have come to an understanding of me without doing that, but they have seemed to be surprised about how i behave consistantly enough to suggest they dont understand me, and have no interest in coming to understand me.
Women are generally not interested in me to want to understand me, and until i come across one who is forthcoming about her progress in understanding me, i can't tell you much about how hard it is to understand me.