Lying to Attract a Mate

Post Reply New Topic

I lie, and well too

Me too.
Just not to my boyfriend (well i try not to)

I think he's just saying that he would tell her within the first few dates or weeks but perhaps not the very first or second date as he would like her to get a realistic picture of his personality, who he is, and what he's about. Ideally he should give it enough time for her to get a theory of who he is as he is and tell her about his AS before it turns into anything head over heals - in that sense he's not distorting himself and he's not catching her off guard later in the relationship

Regarding aspie guys and fatherhood though - I don't know what to say on that. We could perhaps make the same correlation that people with diabetes or things of that nature should be more upfront as they'll have challenges as well? MS in the family? All of these things could seriously effect someone's health and ability not to mention life expectancy. AS doesn't necessarily equal crap husband/father or a husband who even needs a very particular type of woman. Its called a syndrome exactly because its quite a wide spread of people. Some guys literally will have too much weight bearing down on them to be effective fathers, others - like many adults with ADD - will have their challenges but because they have something pushing them to keep trying they'll end up even being exemplary/outstanding parents. That's not to say that all will be exemplary, most will be somewhere in between and - like NT dads - they'll run the whole gamut.

One would hope that by the time you decide to have children, you know a whole hell of a lot more about each other, especially family health history.

No, I'm not insisting you're defective, incredibly or otherwise. I'm stating a fact: you have a disability. I've said, more than once in this thread, and many, many times in other threads, that Aspies can make awesome partners. I know several mixed couples who are very happy. Unfortunately, I've known more who are unhappy, and part of that unhappiness is rooted in having unrealistic expectations. And guess what the overwhelming majority of those expectations stem from? Lies and a lack of education.


So let me ask you: what's your second career going to be? Because web development is not something you'll be doing for the next 40 years - just ask any web developer who was doing web development 10 years ago. I'm not being a fatalist, I'm being a realist. I've been in IT throughout my career, and I'm not doing the same thing I was doing 10 years ago. The global economy is forever shifting resources all over the world, particularly in IT. But you should start planning your next career now, to ensure that you're fully prepared for the change. And btw, there are many Aspies who are able to make great livings, and many who are unable to work and/or earn a decent living.


But I do know something about your ability to cope with stress, to grow in relationships, and all the other things I mentioned, because you're autistic. Not only have I been in Aspie/NT and NT/NT relationships, I've educated myself about autism. I'm not making this up, @LogicallySound. That you say that the symptoms of autism make you defective is on you - not me.


Umm, I used an example from my personal life to show how lying adversely affects relationships. It had nothing to do with autism, or you. Feel free to skip the psychobabble.


Unless of course it's the truth. In which case, I'm just stating facts. Look, you can pretend that autism ain't nothin but a thing, and is just some detail you need to discuss - when you feel the time is right. I guarantee you that strategy is flawed, and it will not work if you expect it to produce a long lasting, healthy relationship. I can tell you there's a huge difference between Aspie/NT relationships and NT/NT relationships, based on my own experience of both, and that it takes a lot of work and commitment and dedication and honesty and trust to make them work. But hey, don't listen to me. You know best.

Okay, I think you're assuming that any NT woman you might date, or "get to know" as a precursor to dating would not notice and/or question your quirks. That's not true. Any woman who is smart enough to hold your interest for the length of polite "coffee talk" is going to notice your quirks, whether it's stimming, or a flat affect, or trouble modulating the volume and/or tone of your voice, an inability to smile or respond appropriately during conversation, or whatever. She'll notice, and it will be better if you can provide context. Without context, she'll assume there's something more problematic going on.

As far as AS people functioning "normally" without any assistance, I don't doubt that's true for many areas of life. But if you really believe that being in an Aspie/NT relationship is no different than an NT/NT relationship, it's just not true. If you hope that an NT partner will find fulfillment in a relationship with you, then you have to be prepared that it will take effort from both parties to make it work.



I didn't mean to imply they have to be the first words out of your mouth. I think doing the reveal within the first date or two is important, so any potential partner can make an informed decision to continue the relationship. I think it's important to understand that there is a difference between Aspie/NT relationships and NT/NT relationships. It doesn't mean Aspie/NT relationships can't be great and fulfilling and wonderful. But if you want it to be great and fulfilling and wonderful, you really both need to work at it. You really both need to be educated, and open to adjusting attitudes and ideas about what a relationship is. You need to be able to talk with each other without blaming each other. And - I believe strongly - you need to start a relationship with a clean slate. You don't want her to always be wondering, "Would I have chosen to be with him if I'd known?" That doubt, that feeling of duplicity, will do as much to undermine your relationship as any symptom of AS ever could. And there's no need to apologize. I think the issues you've raised may result is some helpful discussion?

@Tech, I'm not saying that AS equals crap husband/father. But AS has an impact on relationships, whether that relationship is with a partner or with a child. Could someone with diabetes be a good father? Absolutely, but if he doesn't take his insulin, watch his diet, and exercise, he's not going to be around very long. The father with diabetes has special needs - at some point, his child will have to understand the symptoms of insulin shock, just in case dad needs help at some point. And if dad has AS and gets overstimulated at Chuck E Cheese? I guess dad is not going to Chuck E Cheese for the friend's birthday party, huh? Why is it so horrifying and mean and discriminatory to actually say that ignoring autism within the context of your familial relationships does exponentially more harm than good? I don't get it.

Last edited by HopeGrows on 08 Dec 2010, 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And what does that disability actually disable? You might know the answer to that question for all of the people on the spectrum that you've dealt with but you've never dealt with me. You don't know what I am and am not able to do. You think that you do because you know that I'm autistic and you have some mental model of what that means based on people you've previously interacted with.

Do you mean to tell me that I am not qualified to give any sort of analysis on your own anecdotes and experiences and then turn around and tell me that you know me and the dynamics of my relationships with others better than I know those things myself because of a label and some experiences you have with people who are similarly labelled to me? That's absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not saying that my autism is "nothing but a thing." But what you seem to be asking me to do is, in my mind, unnecessarily cause people to think right off the bat that I'm even more deficient than I actually am, all in the name of being fully honest. And my objection to doing this because I feel that it misrepresents what I truly am (and is thus actually dishonest and not even in my favour!) is, in your view, a statement that I am not willing to act with honesty and integrity and treat potential romantic partners with respect. So what? I either lead my interactions with everybody by disclosing my disability and causing them to think I'm completely and hopelessly socially inept or I'm being dishonest? That's unreasonable.

You absolutely are projecting your experiences on to me because you're insisting that by doing what I'm doing, I am acting in the same manner as the other people that you've seen in your experience: pretending to be something that I'm not and damaging my relationships by encouraging unrealistic expectations about my personality. And all the while I'm trying to tell you that I'm not doing that and that I'm not that kind of person and trying to explain why I act in the way that I do for the sake of contributing to the overall discussion. But you've already decided what kind of person you think I am and that you know better than me. You are answering me with condescension and I'm fed up with it.

I'm not ignoring my disability. I'm trying to be the best me that I can be and I'm trying to present that as best I can. I am absolutely not trying to play some immature and irresponsible bait-and-switch game with women's hearts. What's so wrong with that?

And by the way, I will take care of my career development, thanks. It is not directly relevant to this discussion and the only reason I brought it up at all is because you implied that my disability might limit my earning potential and I absolutely do not believe that to be true. But that's another instance of condescension right there, for anybody who's keeping count.

And I don't have Asperger's Syndrome. I am a High Functioning Autistic. That's yet another instance of presuming you know more about me than you actually do.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGLwqtOF_XY[/youtube]

On a positive note I was able to achieve a date with the third lady ever. I have known her 2 years and I think I was right. Her constant smiling at me and going out of the way to say HI to me was flirting. I don't often interpret these generalizations unless someone like the second girl I went out with was going far and beyond such as inappropriate touching. I had another lady ask this recent one if she has a boyfriend then the lady asked her if she would go out with me. Now we are going to go on a date.

Accordingly I will give her a mistletoe candle I make and hope for recreational activities after a few dates.

Nathan Young

I lie often to further myself

lying is a part of life in many ways
its a gift humans give themselves
something I wasn't supposed to be good at and have gotten really good at
so its a gift I have given myself

@Kilroy, you are naughty.

Yes, it is ridiculous. Then again, I never said I knew you and the dynamics of your relationships - you said that (in the paragraph above). I've said that individuals with disabilities are obligated to disclose the disability very early on in any relationship, in order to avoid the following: you don't want her to always be wondering, "Would I have chosen to be with him if I'd known?" That doubt, that feeling of duplicity, will do as much to undermine your relationship as any symptom of autism ever could. You don't accept that perspective. Fine. Don't accept it.

no...I AM A MAN!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! lol

I think this is where things veered off. Talking about LogicallySound's comment earlier - not saying something immediately. I'd never want to lead someone on myself, just like I'd never want to be with someone who couldn't stand my AS - its not that it shows dramatically but, my core self is different from other peoples a bit. Stigmas about AS automatically meaning a grown man in his thirties rocking and laughing hysterically to Barney in his 30's have gone away a bit, but, talking about weaknesses - any - is typically something better done on third or fourth date.

Chemistry is the hardest thing to achieve for anyone, that and you have a very small window. The first date or two is really supposed to be testing the water on that - keeping it kind of light, laughing, joking, seeing if you both have a sense of humor with a bit of probing as well to see what personality traits they have that energize the situation. If its done in another order things generally fall flat. Telling someone about AS is a good thing in the early stages, yes, but not the immediate stage. That's what I'm getting at.

What sucks also with this, you may have heard this from a lot of guys - you may not have. As much of our realities as we know, fathers, mother, brothers, friends, teachers, anyone, we have this constant drum pounding into our heads daily, all day - confidence! confidence! confidence! confidence! confidence! It's thrown at us as the first and utmost priority. I think even that a lot of these guys who are lying are really confused, as they may in some cases have their own set of ethics, another saying that they'll be disgracing themselves in their eyes if they choose those ethics and then - on top of that - the opposite sex egging them on to be that in most of the visible cases. I'm not at all suggesting its smart for aspie guys go chase after women who aren't right for them and straight up hold an act, because I agree - they don't end up happy. Simultaneously I think about it like this - what sort of aspie guy *can* in fact do this? Its likely not the guy who's going on his emotions, he may get shoved in my friends or family to do so but ultimately he'll have no front- it'll be over. The types of guys who can do this - likely are the guys who have the computer programmer minds, operate on a code, and they don't have to deviate from it because they don't have to rack their brains too hard on it as the tightly woven conscience and scruples questions are less of a factor, they may already know its over their raw emotional depth so they just let the code take control. With them though, beyond just wanting to be loved and wanting to go through the motions to be loved, they've also been running on that code their whole lives, so its quite questionable whether they even realize their being deceitful - especially when all their doing is what the NT world forced them to do since day one. I'm not telling you its an ideal situation for them or the women their with, just that understanding it you see in those cases its likely not nefarious.

The guys who are jerks and want to put on a front to purely get in - you're right, they can't hold it up (no puns intended), they end up agreeing with anything a girl says or amazed at anything she says that could be taken as insightful, there's a term for these guys - macks. Guys like this won't stay with girls long because they get it, fake only as long as they need to, and they leave. By acting like Tom Cruise in Vanilla Sky they get a lot of positive reactions, its also a signal to the portion of women who are out to get it and leave that they can get a pretty face for a few weeks, slum a bit, and be done without feeling the least bit bad about him not calling again. This is also why I can't deal with Dave DeAngelo type stuff, as in yes - the 'don't be a doormat' bit is great, being witty or a bit self-deprecating to show security is great, aside from that - faking your way into someone's life with PUA stuff - one nighters or being a mack is all its good for. I will not deny that there are some aspie guy's who either just don't care or who have been abused by the world (who hasn't) but have come to the wrong conclusions and are out to just get theirs - they're out there - I don't know that they have it in them to be so cold and calculated as to either get engaged or married to a girl and never reveal himself, and typically that's hell to most guys, they typically can't do it.

I'm not harping on the original post - its good - just that it seems like the point may have drifted a little bit, wanted to be sure that we filled in the nuances .

There is no obligation to disclose any kind of thing, of course not. Since the disability classification is external from my natural self and is manifest in that I am. It would however be morally obligatory of both females and males to disclose SDT's upon entry or prior to entry into a relationship. True love is a symptom of the human condition and a diagnoses seems to be to get services to achieve a normal life as much as possible. For instance was it for not my diagnoses I would not be going on my date in a few days as the date was arranged by another person with disabilities with a person with disabilities. The label less it is infectious does not need disclosure as it is manifest in ones behavior and self.

Any mandated association in identity, in priority governing my personal behavior and how I relate to the world because of a label is discrimination though I do not wish to be hard on you.

I've mostly agreed with you about not lying to a partner thus far. However, before judging aspies for not discussing their diagnosis early with the person they're dating, please read the initial question and responses in the following thread in another forum:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=9652.1

LogicallySound never said he wanted to with-hold the information until he got married to the person, he said he wanted to talk about it only once he trusts her. As it stands, you can't even trust a well-meaning partner about your disclosure of AS because they may not have the knowledge to distinguish between information that could help with the relationship and the anti-disablist BS spued out by those Cassandra hate groups who's primary goal appears to be to destroy any potential relationships aspies might have or make it impossible for aspies to enter into them. Such as what you will read in the thread above. AS is not the only significant part of a personality.