"Heartless b*****s"(includes words of advice)

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erm, how is it romantic for a man to... abusively manipulate women with niceness, go for women out of one's league but expect girls to settle for him, use niceness as bait, or think he's better than other guys cuz he's nice? as far as i can see the only one that remotely smacks of Disney is pedestalising women, unless you are seeing something different in that list.

I disagree with anything that talks about what "women want" because that is not true of everyone. We can speak in terms of what most women want, sure, but not all of them.

In my opinion, people aren't making any "mistakes" by being who they are. Maybe they aren't the type of person that most women would find attractive, but that doesn't make it wrong and there probably is someone out there who would like the type of person they are. There is at least one or two people somewhere who like any given thing.

Well said!

I once pointed out here that statistically, one should strive to be as "average" as possible to appeal to the maximum number of women.

In essence, you need to become the human embodiment of "smooth jazz"

I'd rather be myself and be alone, than change myself to suit someone else's desires - someone out there will love me for who I am...

OMG, please don't...

And Grisha (and others who were in the same vein), WORD on everything you said. Trying to contort to fit a mold only ends up in failure and over-the-top anxiety.

Last edited by mv on 18 Oct 2011, 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Agreed. However, this thread/article does contain good advice for those who just want someone/anyone to be with them. Your best chances of finding someone are to act like the kind of person "women want."

Ah I invented the list to show what makes a self-proclaimed nice guy and that it's a misguided perceived idea of romance regardless of whether he is aware or unaware of what he's doing. For a instance, a guy may be putting a huge expectation or obligation on a woman that has rarely shown any sign of fondness.

Modern men are sensitized and raised to be that way through the media and social conditioning and end up being more emotional and less assertive. Being assertive isn't something that you're magically born with, it's how you respond to situations and how you deal and cope in a relationship or with others in day to day life. It can be programmed and conditioned through our mistakes and experiences, Cognitive behavioral therapy can also work wonders for people on the spectrum if applied correctly.

why?


i am sorry to see you think the way you do.
i do not care how other peoples minds process what they see of me.
they can get f*cked it they wish to impede my progress, and they never do impede my progress, so they never get "f****d" i would suppose.


you should know you are the boss of your being, and you should take charge,

even though i am quite ret*d in many ways, i still take charge.

i think men can be both assertive and emotional - they don't seem to be mutually exclusive. a man can even be assertive, emotional AND romantic. there is no downside in being romantic in and of itself, and i think the "cine guy syndrome" is not a byproduct of that.

one thing to keep in mind is that if *everyone* becomes more assertive, it will raise the bar of what is considered assertive. if all men are assertive then "assertive" will start to appear passive in popular culture. there is a constantly changing standard of what assertive really means - it isn't a universal and timeless measurement of appropriate or effective behaviour.

it can work for a person to become more assertive if they used to be passive, but it only works because other people are remaining (or becoming) passive. this is a big reason why i don't think it is universal guidance to be applied universally.

i still think the list has nothing to do with romance, whether you intended it to or not. it has to do with men putting on a fake "nice" persona, but that doesn't translate into anything romantic. a man can write love poems and talk about his feelings and sing ballads and buy floweres and yet still be assertive... and genuine.

A lot of us learn the hard way that a fake "nice" persona is the way to get other people to want us around. We practice it so much we stop noticing that we're doing it. And we get confused when women want us around but then don't progress to the obvious next step of romance when it works that way with other guys.

it has nothing to do with romance still. it's not the fault of society, it's not the fault of Disney, it's not the fault of media sensitisation if men think they can get romance by faking nice. it makes no logical sense to blame romance or popular culture that they feel that way. characters in romance novels, or example, don't follow some prescribed standard of "nice".

Dont see how it would change things but we were talking about a mutual acquaintance and she thought he fitted the description.


Yes Im trying to avoid attempting to please everyone because its impossible to do so.

However the things on the article that apply to me have been brought up a few times by some of the people Ive approached and are making socializing even more difficult so Im trying to work on those things to see if things can improve in some way. Ive spent too much time here saying that its all about the attitude and it´d be hypocritical to refuse to work on my issues if thats what Im suggesting others to do.

Guess you havent heard of mr darcy´s syndrome http://www.loveromancepassion.com/the-darcy-syndrome/
Over 590000 results talking about women that love aloof men who behave like sociopaths and how they cant find one irl.

Not everyone is looking for the same thing.

I don't really buy the whole "Disney made me do it!" excuse. I mean I understand the prince charming stereotype, but I don't think many girls really want to marry the prince from Snow White past the age of eight or so. I think if I were going to base my behavior off a fictional character in hopes of increasing my popularity with the ladies, I'd go with the dark, brooding, potentially dangerous (but with just a hint of sensitivity) persona that makes vampires all the rage these days.

Yeah, now I know that it has nothing to do with romance. But it took several years and a few huge revelations to figure out there was more to the whole "romance" thing than "girl likes being around you, girl falls in love with you after willingly being around you for a while, happily ever after"

If your ability to see nonverbal cues is impaired, and people around you have a habit of not explaining these things to you, all you've got to go on is your skewed interpretation of movies, stories, etc.

When you get right down to it, "assertive" is a hugely complex negotiation. It's a lot easier to steamroll (if you're in a position of power) or supplicate/go passive (if you're not in a position of power) and hope for the best... assertive negotiation is a lot of rapid-fire interactions.

I have to disagree that the standard for being assertive evolves or changes. The ability to be assertive is to put thoughts into perspective and simply to rationalize and discern between the truth and a distortion thus making one more self assured to take the correct responsive action. It's simply a mindset and skill which takes practice and experience. Every single person is prone to experience distortions, how we respond to them determines whether we are assertive or passive.



Before the industrial revolution when people lived off the land, women's requirements for the right man made logical sense. This was because a weak minded, shy and passive man would not be able to defend the girl and his territory from outside threats. Only a 'tough' guy would be able to provide for and ensure the survival of a potential family. Fast forward to the future. Governments, laws, police, military, by-laws, courts and jail time.

All of these things take away the need for any one man to have to be a natural hero to a potential family. That requirement has been left in the hands of the government. Ironically, if a man were to use natural instincts and methods to defend his family, the government would punish him for breaking 'man made laws'. Since men don't have to be the dominant warriors that were required of them in primitive times.

Times change as do people, society becomes more convenient when there's no logical reason driving people. For example, five hundred years ago, people had to hunt, now people are so sensitized to the idea of hunting that they can't even kill the meat they eat. The United States has the highest obesity rates in the world because it has adapted to eating processed foods and living a convenient lifestyle. For example, gays were persecuted under a society dictated by organized religion, it was only when democracy and liberalism came into play that gays were more accepted and integrated into society because people no longer had any justification or logical reason to hate them.

I think the progression of society is good because it allows passive and assertive people to co-exist and learn from each other, it gives people more freedom to be who they are and allows diversity. The stereotypical perception of attractive no longer has to be based on logic, society is becoming less biased and more accepting and aware towards differences. People aren't born passive, the actions of an individual aren't solely based on that individual, people are what they perceive themselves to be. We are a result of our environment, culture and social conditioning and the sooner we leave primitive and biased thinking behind, the better.

I think nice guy syndrome is just "young inexperienced guy" syndrome in many cases.

I don't know any married nice guys in that sense.