Look out! It's a Nice Guy! DESTROY HIM!!

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I know what you mean. I remember many times when I was just confused, but by the time I figured out what really happened, or was told by someone else, the damage was done, and I was stuck with the aftermath.
I only found out I was autistic relatively recently, so am still identifying things that played out in my life the way they did because of that. It is astounding the difference between how people must have seen me, and how I saw myself, and I never realized.

Finally there is someone to say this.

I've said this SO MANY TIMES about this "friend zone" BS:

I am NOT going to date someone by whom I am PHYSICALLY REPULSED no matter HOW "nice" they are to me! Put the shoe on the other foot Nice GuysTM: Imagine if there was a girl whom you fpund absolutely repulsive physically, whether she was morbidly obese, deformed or whatever else. Now imagine she befriended you for the sole purpose of trying to get in your pants and did obviously flirty things with you like buying you candy, etc. Would you date her just because she was "nice" even if it made you vomit in your mouth to think of her kissing or touching you?

I thought not.

I personally wouldn't even allow any close friendship to occur between us. It wouldn't be fair for her at all.

That's obviously an extreme example but the gist of this "friend zone" nonsense is to make the woman feel bad for not being attracted enough to a man to give him the relationship he's apparently entitled to if he's kind to her. Kindness doesn't entitle you to a relationship. Kindness is part of being a decent human being!

Oh, to be honest, I don't believe women who allow friend zones to occur are totally innocent in this. It goes both ways.

In my view, the best relationships, ideally speaking, are those that blossom from good and close friendships. If the girl (or guy) doesn't agree with this ideal, then they shouldn't be such close friends to begin with.

Nobody is asking you to date someone you don't like, but that doesn't mean the term "friend zone" doesn't correspond with something real or that you get to decide for everyone whether the term is an appropriate description. You're actually misinterpreting the term in a similar way the woman is talking about in her video. Did you watch it?

The friend zone is quite real, and it comes into play when a guy who is considered a candidate for a relationship does not make his move, so to speak. If he doesn't escalate the potential, then he will at some point move from "potential lover" to "friend", because the interaction is categorized as "friendship" (and this sort of interpretation is going on unconsciously continuously). It's got nothing to do with being repulsed by him suddenly, it's simply a matter of defining the social context in which you interact with someone - the ambiguity of love vs. friendship is too complicated. Of course that's only the intellectualized explanation, and the simple explanation would be that attraction has to be nourished by engaging in certain behaviors, or it dies (this is less so for men, since they're often attracted primarily to the looks which are - more or less - constant).



OK, so now I'm pretty sure you didn't even watch the video you're commenting on. The idea that the term "friend zone" is only and inherently used to make girls feel guilty or whatever is just ridiculous.

No, kid; being "Friendzoned" is very real.


That's not "Friendzoning", that's "Creepzoning".

Being "Friendzoned" is when a man is nice enough to be "just a friend", but not good enough to be anything more than that. In other words, it's like going on a job interview and being told "... while you don't qualify for the job, we will keep your resume on file, and if something open up, we'll get in contact with you."

Being "Creepzoned" is like going on a job interview, and having the receptionist call security the moment you walk through the door.


No comment.

Let me get this straight... you're saying that if two people become close friends, and only one of them thinks this is the natural pathway to a relationship, even if the other person isn't aware of this, they're still in the wrong somehow?



The problem boils down to communication. There is a very thin line between romance and close friendship, and the "friendzone" happens when one party realizes they're on the romance side of the line and the other party isn't. I think some people are unnecessarily harsh about the friendzone issue in saying stuff like, "The friendzone is just a term invented by guys who can't deal with rejection."

Rejection sucks. Period. Unrequited feelings are the worst. "Friendzone" is a term that is passively applied to someone, and it's clearly out of their control to influence whether they end up in this place or not. The concept by itself is relatively innocuous as long as you don't take it as an invitation to pity yourself and lay blame at the other party's feet. When someone says something like, "She friendzoned me," the dynamic changes from passive to active. Friendzoning becomes an affliction willfully doled out on an unsuspecting victim, and that makes the other party out to be an aggressor (in a loose sense of the word).

It's okay to feel bad when you're rejected by someone, but taking it out on them is not excusable. I'm not accusing all men of doing this, but there are clearly men who do, therefore, it is an issue that ought to be addressed.

I've been on both sides of the "Friendzone" issue.

In one instance, I was clueless that the girl had any deep feelings for me, and didn't find out until I announced my engagement to someone else. The girl with feelings for me was found a few hours later, in a cemetery, having cried herself to sleep.

In another instance, I had a few great dates with a woman, only to find out that she didn't feel the same way toward me until she asked me to help her deliver her wedding invitations.

Yeah, it sucks, but then you move on.

The issue is that the girl knows that she has rejected the guy pretty early on, while the guy might still try to find the right moment to ask her out, for example. Then, when he finally does, he realizes he's been in the friend zone for much longer than he thought and he might feel like her behavior didn't communicate this very clearly. I guess it's an unrealistic expectation, especially in the NT world, but on the other hand, wouldn't it be nice if the girl could simply be overt and direct about this: "I notice you're being nice to me, and I just want to make sure you're not getting the wrong idea: I like spending time with you and getting to know you better as a friend, but I'm not interested in becoming your girlfriend". There, problem solved. You could argue that if a girl is showered with attention and affection in a situation that doesn't seem to warrant it, it can't be hard to realize that there might be hopes for more than just friendship, and in that case being open about her perspective on the issue would be common decency. A guy can easily mistake a girl's signals as subtle flirting while she thinks she's just being nice - so I'd argue there's naiveté and some justified frustration on both sides.
And just as there are some guys who seem to think being nice entitles them to something, there are some girls who will abuse the friend zone.

So if you want to address the issue, you have to address both sides of it, and not just complain about the other side while not acknowledging there are two parties with influence over how things develop.

So,

Today I was meeting a couple of nice girls from church just for lunch.
We are friends and we met last year to do the same thing so now that one of them is back on the country we decided we had to meet.


One thing lead to another and this meal "surprisingly" ended in making me say yes to watching one of them play the flute at tonight´s mass and lasting 6 hours more than it should have(I was meeting other people this evening, told them I would confirm if I could make it later and they understood the performance thingy).

Anyhow I ended up going to bible group with this group of nice girls/guys that joined us and we discussed submission, to a superior, to your parents, to an spouse(only applicable if you are female since the bible verses we read stated that the man is the head of the marriage just like jesus is the head of the church)


A friend of mine, a great guy that is not too good leading because he is very shy and so on, asked the group if everyone agreed that the male should always be the lead.
We discussed this for a while.
The discussion ended when the main male asked every girl if they wanted to marry a wuss or a lead and the answer was as expected(after a decent laughs and several amens).


Sadly this type of people are the "most understanding" and not even them appreciate a wuss.
Nice guys present themselves as wusses to female eyes.
That is their main problem, not the friend zone, not feminism, not entitlement issues, the fact that no female wants to end up with someone that presents themselves as a wuss and that is how they present themselves

yes,but men wouldn't pretend to be an ugly women friend.
what,some women do is they act like a quasi girlfriend to these ugly nice guys,
they go to dinners,they hug them, they don't act like friends towards a friendzone guy.
and friendzone is not a male friend who has a crush on female friend who ACTS LIKE
A FRIEND.

people who are entitled don't believe they need to do anything to get a date.
any man who acts nice and does nice things for a woman,actual like her.
an entitle man doesn't feel like he needs to be nice or needs to do nice
things because he believe women should just like him,and he doesn't
have to do anything.

And I think I have found where the disconnect is.

When girls are friends with girls, they ARE quasi-relationships. They go out to dinners together, they hug each other and they are actually very close to each other. When girls see these guys, they treat them as they would their girlfriends, and the guys mis-read the signals.

Probably not the case 100% of the time, but could explain where some of the time things go wrong.

Thankfully I nipped mine on the bud before he could really develop any feelings for me (although considering he started our communication on twitter by immediately hitting on me, and when I rejected him immediately trying it on with one of my friends, I think I dodged a bullet...).

So if you tell someone from early on "I'm not interested in a relationship with you," you can avoid being labeled a cold-hearted "friend zoning" b***h? Good to know.

EDIT: billisool's response made more sense to me than what I thought "friendzone" was. I always thought "friendzone" was when a woman and man were understood to be friends but the guy developed feelings and the girl rejected him because she didn't like him that way. As for hugging, etc. make friends, I don't do that with straight guy friends. I used to kiss my gay male friends on the cheek but my boyfriend told me it made him uncomfortable so I stopped.

Last edited by EmoGlambertAspie on 25 Jul 2013, 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.