Toxic Masculinty

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Might be, but IMHO, the issue I and probably many other neurodiverse people struggle the most with is to be natural. If you cannot solve the "be natural" there is little chance you will be able to "choose to be happy".

This is particularly important with relationships. You need to trust your natural instincts that you are doing the right thing even if our culture and most other people think it is the wrong thing. Because your instincts are right for you and most other peoples opinions are wrong because they where not made like you. You also need to trust your natural vision that there are people of the opposite gender that have compatible preferences, and that also struggle with finding their natural way of being, and that possibly are trying to emulate others in order to try to find a partner.

Not true from my point of view. You must have met all the wrong women. I've never had a woman try to form me like they want me to be.

Certainty << Consistency. Besides certainty is based on intuition and not on facts and reason. And even though people aren't *completely* unique, no 2 individuals are identical in terms of the personalities and temperaments! That is because these 2 things are determined by genetics and no 2 human beings are genetically identical(not even identical twins). Given the SHEER SIZE of the human population, you actually can be certain(read it's highly likely)that there is someone out there who will want to sleep with you.





This is correct.

Oh I have! Not all women are like this but you'd be surprised how common this is....Particularly among women in their 30s and down here in my country.

Here's the deal: If a woman sees herself as more attractive to the opposite sex than you are(to the opposite sex), she will insist that you be the one to make compromises for her benefit. And often this is the case even if you both are equally desirable to others. If she sees you as a "stud", that is more desirable than she is because you're an alpha(TM), then she will willingly compromise for your benefit.



@Gauldoth: Dating leagues do not govern possibility, the govern likelyhood.

Hypergamy, or dating above your league, is not easy to do if you're male but it CAN be done. But the price you pay for dating a woman who is more attractive to men than you are to women is that she will make being with her conditional on you sacrificing yourself for her benefit but she won't do the same for you.

But certainly you can see how absurd his generalisations are?

If you live in the land of fussy, spoiled princesses, you have my genuine sympathy - I've met a few in my life (of both genders) and they are insufferable to say the least! In the places I've lived and dated they were a definite minority though and most sane people avoided them like the plague. And if it's any consolation, their attitude catches up with them later in life big time. Move if you can, you'd be surprised how much difference it can make. A lot of people (particularly young ones who never travelled) make the weird assumption that people are exactly the same, everywhere. Even in the West, from one European country to another, cultural differences can be utterly surprising, especially between gregarious and more introverted cultures. On the surface, we're pretty much the same, but underneath you'll find that centuries of specific traditions, attitudes and customs left a pretty deep mark. You have to actually live in a place for a while and pay attention to see it.

And you don't have to go for the "norm" if you don't like it anyway. I've always liked unusual, eccentric people and another stereotype I've seen here a lot and don't understand is that such people are by default ugly, "nerdy", antisocial or outcasts, junkies, criminals etc Exceptions exist everywhere, are far from impossible to find and definitely worth the effort.

I fully agree with you on the "leagues" thing (especially when it comes to advising others to date people they don't find attractive) and those who reduce human relationships of any kind strictly to a looks/money market - and no, I'm not saying these factors play no part at all - should be avoided at all costs, along with those who try to sell (or buy) beauty or think they did the world a favour by deigning to be born. If you buy into it, especially when it comes to marriage, you'll basically get what you deserve and make your own misery.

Seriously speaking, as an older, non-American guy who had a radically different experience with dating, women and people in general, are really the majority of people around you half as bad as described in this part of the forum? And is really the conformity and pressure to conform pushed that far?

I hope you're right. And maybe there's even a person who will want to live with me.

Sounds reasonable. I think I've seen this more than once. In my marriage I suppose I'm the one that is most desirable, so I guess I shouldn't have seen it.



I know other ways. I've had this happen without sacrificing anything, but then it was only in the flirting / observation stage. I suppose that if I had let it advance to a relationship I might have experienced it, but I don't know since that never happened.

If you do traditional dating, I suppose it is kind of inevitable as the issue seems to be related to that.

Any ideas about how to avoid this?

You got me! Women are evil and the only way to get anywhere with them is to treat them like inferior subhuman garbage who are out to enslave you. Clearly that strategy works so well for you how could it not be true? It's all part of the Chris Brown led conspiracy to put omega males like yourself in bondage........... Way to see through it man! Truly bang-up job! Now get out there and score some sex!

Geekonychus is a very reliable source on these matters

You realize that is has been mathematically proven that all women are evil?

Here's the pr00f:


1. Women = time*money(inductive observation due to the traditions of marriage)
2. time == money(equivalence, Benjamin Franklin's axiom)
3. Money = sqrt(Evil) (Timothy 6:10)
4. Women = money^2(substitution of 2. into 1.)
5. Women = money^2 = sqrt(Evil)^2 = Evil (substitution of 3. into 4.)
6. Ergo, Women = Evil.

Oh, now what did the poor, miserable strawman do to you? Why are you beating him so mercilessly?

Also, I couldn't help but notice the distinct lack of any links to articles written by prominent feminists condemning Chris Brown for what he did. Is there a problem?

True, although that raises the question of whether or not you'd even WANT do date outside your league, if the opportunity presented itself. Is dating a more attractive person than you who will endlessly tax you whilst giving you nothing in return really worth it? What are you even getting out of a relationship like that, outside of the ability to brag to your peers that you're dating someone above your league?

Again, I can sort of understand how that might interest you if you're a woman, since the acquisition of social status is the main goal and motivator behind most women's actions, just like sex is for men. But if you're a man, simple bragging rights probably won't interest you all that much. And if you're an Aspie man like me, they definitely won't.

For a surprisingly simple reason:

SEX. That's right! If someone really is sexy and turns you on, you're willing to put up with a lousy relationship to get in the sack with them. This is why women stick with bad boys who treat them like dogsh*t because they find these men sexually attractive and believe they can change them. You are sorely mistaken if sex isn't a motivating factor for women and it's just as important if not moreso than social status.

But also you need to keep in mind that acquisition of social status is as desirable and important to men as it is to women. Being the boyfriend of a hawt chick and having her as your arm candy is a way to get positive attention from people. It's a lot like new money people flaunting their wealth to show everyone that they made it.

Ok, NOW I'm impressed!

Again, that's only true if you're a man. And you seem to be missing the point; it's like you said if you're someone in a relationship who's more attractive to the opposite sex than you are, then that person is going to endlessly tax you and extract as much of you as they can whilst giving almost nothing in return. This means that if you're a man dating a woman who's out of your league, then she'll always give you the least amount of sex she can get away with. I mean, are endless months of concessions and sacrifice really worth it, only for her to lay on her back once in a blue moon and let you pound away at her for 30 minutes?

I'd rather be in a relationship with a less attractive girl where we're in relatively even footing and where I can get what I want from her, rather than being with a super-model who'll do nothing but make endless demands of me.

Incidentally, if you're a low-status woman in a relationship with a higher-status male, you have the opposite problem: the man will constantly be demanding sex from you whilst giving you nothing of what you actually want from him in return (again, with the possible exception of bragging rights).



*cough* BS *cough*



The part in bold I can tell you for a fact is not true. As for the second part, consider this: I spent most of my late years in high school as the designated Nice GuyTM unpaid therapist for most of the girls in my class, and I can tell you that in all of our conversations NOT ONCE did any of them even mention sex, nor gave any indication that it was in any way important to them.