Approaching someone in public

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funeralxempire
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17 Aug 2024, 10:26 am

cyberdad wrote:
Yeah I personally have always been this way, and I can't imagine other men could not do this. If you strike up a conversation then do it for engaging/being friendly. Not because you have ulterior motives.

When I visited San Diego Seaworld, the host says "be like the dolphin, they seek friendship without anything in return"


Meanwhile dolphins are known for being sex creeps. :lol:


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cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 6:40 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Meanwhile dolphins are known for being sex creeps. :lol:


Heavens! why tarnish children's fantasies. Are you old enough to remember Flipper?



cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 6:53 pm

JustDifferent wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Also, if the woman seems offended, dismissive, or scared please don't judge her and all other women as irrational man-haters, and don't blame yourself as being "not good enough" or a failure.


On the flipside it's really a small minority of men who "hate" women. I think a lot of the men and women who struggle approaching somebody in public just accept the status quo.


If it were only a small minority, the world would have looked differently.


Hate is a strong word. Implicit bias is perhaps more widespread. Part of the issue (especially for younger men) is we can't pretend that cis-straight men can behave in exactly same way toward women as they do with men. While this is no reason to carry biases, invariably in the current era it creates confusion for a lot of men (especially younger males who have raging hormones).



cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 7:08 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Anyone can engage in condescending, mansplaining type of behavior (jerksplaining). However, it very often happens to women due to deeply entrenched sexist beliefs - beliefs related to thinking women are less intelligent, less rational, etc. simply for being a woman. On WP, it usually occurs in conjunction with (and by folks who regularly engage in) other sexist behaviors like making sweeping generalizations (e.g. claiming that women have it easier).


While I agree we should be vigilant for this type of behaviour. We should also give some benefit of the doubt that the intent isn't always to cause harm or offend. It's currently fashionable to roll one's eyes when people engage in condescending, ignorant or jerk/karen behaviour and be labelled racist or using one's white privilege. I noticed of the 10,000 WP members only a handful ever respond or make such threads on this forum because the vast majority of people who engage in this type of behaviour don't intend on being racist and are not aware they are being perceived as offensive.

Likewise the vast majority of males have some level of empathy/understanding of women because we have mothers, sisters, wives, girlfriends, co-workers and friends who are female. It will take many more generations for entrenched beliefs whether they be ableist, homophobia, racism or misogyny to vanish.

But can you really blame a young man who has tried everything they can think of to even make one female friend who is constantly rejected not to develop negative "feelings" about women their age.



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17 Aug 2024, 7:16 pm

It’s true that people often engage in hurtful behavior without meaning to. It doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be called on it. It’s especially important to address sexism in online communities due to Incel ideology, and I will continue to do so whenever I deem it appropriate.

Women also have “raging hormones” sometimes AND experience loneliness too. People make too many excuses for young men when they are perfectly capable of behaving decently as evidenced by the many men who behave decently. Socialization and erroneous beliefs regarding gender cause more problems than the hormones themselves.



cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 7:22 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
It’s true that people often engage in hurtful behavior without meaning to. It doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be called on it. It’s especially important to address sexism in online communities due to Incel ideology, and I will continue to do so whenever I deem it appropriate..


Which is your imperative and right. Of course you didn't need me to give you permission :lol:



cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 7:35 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Women also have “raging hormones” sometimes AND experience loneliness too. People make too many excuses for young men when they are perfectly capable of behaving decently as evidenced by the many men who behave decently. Socialization and erroneous beliefs regarding gender cause more problems than the hormones themselves.


I agree to a point. But I am looking from the perspective of developing biases. And yes, females can also develop phobias toward men that are based on erroneous beliefs due to bad experiences or what they are taught.

Getting back to the topic, there is no excuse for strange men approaching women (it rarely happens the other way around) for romantic pursuits. While there is scope for decent intent (making friends) how it's perceived is subjective. Some young females hanging around nightclubs or bars would consider it disappointing if men don't show them attention. But in this day and age young men are less likely than their fathers to walk up to females they do not know and start a conversation.

Yes, I think most men know how to behave decently toward women. time heals past wounds. But yes, call it out when they don't live up to expectation.



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17 Aug 2024, 7:36 pm

It seems like some guys might not know what it’s like for women to experience sexist microaggressions on a regular basis. It says a lot when they consistently express more sympathy for folks engaging in jerk behavior than the women who have to put up with it. Maybe they don’t realize how harmful consistent sexism is, especially on support forums. In addition to that, they often seem to undermine female sexuality and loneliness because, you know, women don’t get boners. :roll:

On WP, it’s pretty rare for a topic about women including female issues/topics/spaces to come up without it taking a sexist tone. It almost never happens outside of the women’s forum, and it’s frequently committed by members who’ve engaged in consistent sexism over the years as evidenced by removed posts, locked threads, and such. It’s not usually about isolated sexist events. There’s no reason why women should see this stuff and not speak up because there’s no good excuse for it.



cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 7:42 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Maybe they don’t realize how harmful consistent sexism is, especially on support forums..


It's precisely because WP is a support forum that men here open up and share their feelings. I imagine there are nt dominated spaces that also are support forums but if they are dominated by male nts it may not be a comfortable or safe space to open up.



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17 Aug 2024, 7:45 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Maybe they don’t realize how harmful consistent sexism is, especially on support forums..


It's precisely because WP is a support forum that men here open up and share their feelings. I imagine there are nt dominated spaces that also are support forums but if they are dominated by male nts it may not be a comfortable or safe space to open up.

There are rules that members must abide by. Sexism is against the rules. People can share their feelings, but if doing so involves some form of bigotry - racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc., they must keep it to themselves because it’s not fair to other members.



cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 7:45 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
On WP, it’s pretty rare for a topic about women including female issues/topics/spaces to come up without it taking a sexist tone.


Isn't there a women's forum? I rarely check it out as I don't feel I am either qualified or knowledgeable on women's issues. Do men enter these spaces and use sexist language? then that's on them.



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17 Aug 2024, 7:46 pm

Sexism, including sexist language, is against the rules on WP. Period.



cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 7:48 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Maybe they don’t realize how harmful consistent sexism is, especially on support forums..


It's precisely because WP is a support forum that men here open up and share their feelings. I imagine there are nt dominated spaces that also are support forums but if they are dominated by male nts it may not be a comfortable or safe space to open up.

There are rules that members must abide by. Sexism is against the rules. People can share their feelings, but if doing so involves some form of bigotry - racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc., they must keep it to themselves because it’s not fair to other members.


We also need to be mindful that many males (and females) struggle to articulate their feelings without filtering their language. Partly due to ignorance, partly they lack the capacity to identify they might be conflating their experiences with hidden/embedded biases that emerge.



cyberdad
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17 Aug 2024, 7:48 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Sexism, including sexist language, is against the rules on WP. Period.

How many members read the site rules?



TwilightPrincess
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17 Aug 2024, 7:50 pm

If they can’t speak without using sexist language, they will probably receive warnings and an eventual ban because it’s not fair for women to have to put up with that which is why it’s against the rules. When it’s not kept in check, others tend to join in making the problem worse.



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17 Aug 2024, 7:56 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Sexism, including sexist language, is against the rules on WP. Period.

How many members read the site rules?

Probably not enough. Of course, when reports are made, mods inform members of the rules. Not knowing the rules isn’t a good excuse to engage in bigotry. It causes a lot of harm for folks who’ve experienced sexism (or whatever) in their personal lives. I think some don’t get how harmful it is. In any event, I report all instances of bigotry I come across. It’s important to address it when it comes up to make this a safe space for everyone. If someone feels restricted because they can’t engage in sexism (racism, transphobia, etc.), WP probably isn’t the right site for them.