Gonna try acting like a dick towards NT party girls

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Bravo. (claps)

I kinda noticed that when you saw certain things, like with this or with ladder theory, you're pretty quick to call it misogyny. I don't think any of the guys think that women who object to these topics are neurotic or man-hating, just that its as if they've either glossed over their own gender's flaws for the sake of solidarity, for the sake of some internal need not to see them, possibly the old fashioned "girls are sugar, spice, and everything nice...guys are..."(whatever the opposite); I don't really know what's going through other peoples heads aside from what they'll say. I think these are things that you'd have to be a guy to understand probably, particularly a type of guy who has a million problems making anything happen in the relationship world and no explainable reason for it - it happens, its not like clockwork that its some form of immaturity on his part, and a lot of times guys are trying to figure out an explanation on why they're stuck when other guys aren't. Its not hate speech, its them embracing some grimier and harder theories just for the fact that they've gotten past the gloss, been burned enough times, seen the underbelly of how human beings work (yes, women included), and what it really is just the truth without all the gloss, politeness, and dilution.

Its kind of like how as a guy I'll never be able to fully understand not being able to go many places at night alone, having to watch my drinks at bars, having to real wary of strangers, I can understand the immediate of that but can't and never will understand the pervasive long term end of it because I'd have to live it to really be there and see how exactly that the cause and effect plays out, how it would impact my emotions on things and my outlook on people in general. On the flip, I don't think you could honestly tell me what a guy does or doesn't go through on this end - your kidding yourself to think otherwise.

Yeah, too true. What's more, they have no idea how pathetic it makes them sound.

Hey, if you just wanna shag, why don't you go to a carpet place and ask them for some offcuts. Then you'll have piles of shag.

Sexual orientation is not a choice,fool.

and so what?

Bravo techstepgenr8tion , you said it all. Juliekitty talks as if humans are not dimorphic primates and she calls everyone who talks about the ladder theory as misogynist ...let me make it :
-I am not misogynist
-I never beat women ,I never promote women 's beating or rape or even justify them by all means
-I am not against women's rights
-I respect good women
-I don't see women as more inferior than men
-one of the main reason why I quit Islam and became atheist is the ugly illogical misogynism in this religion and even in other religions.
-I am against hijab
- I am good toward the women of my family and I respect them.
- I was raised by a high school level math teacher mother and I feel proud to have a highly educated mother
- My mother earns more than my father and I never had a problem or shame to admit that (yet so many girls find it weird if husbands earn less than their wives ,ha!).
-I studied in a normal secular French school where there's no separation between girls and guys
-You want to see real misogynists?? Go visit Saudi Arabia.


All these sound misogynist,right? kitty and this gay wannabe kitsy know f***** nothing about me in order to judge me.

Bottom line: I am not misogynist , I just understand evolution well and I see it well in our behavior , I have no shame to admit that I am a part of it . I have no shame to admit that I have polygamous instinct for example and I have no shame to admit that I would prefer the prettier girl. We just inherited these characteristics from our ancestors and they are well encoded in our DNA and these characteristics are GOOD for human's survival and a sane evolution.

I don't hate women but I hate hypocrites.

It seems t hat julie doesn't understand evolution and natural selection and so she can't see it well in our society and in our behavior ...or she lives in denial.

I recall well that Julie stated many times that she dislikes other girls and she can't understand their mindset and their complicated behavior and can't even stand them, yet she blames us why we are bitter like this and why we nag about women's behavior ,now this is hypocrisy .

Last edited by LePetitPrince on 06 Jan 2008, 12:28 pm, edited 6 times in total.

It seems that most of this forum agree with ideas like the ones written about in the naked ape ---> The Naked Ape , as well as the ladder theory and other theories that show humans as not being very far removed from their primitive ancestors

I think these therories underestimate humans generally - men and women. Plus of which, the generalisations they make! Humans are so varied, it doesn't do well to paint them in such broad brushstrokes.

Yes you are right, the ladder theory is just a vulgar version of Naked ape's main idea.




You are just overrating the human species.

Cerebrally what your saying is right, we're capable of a lot more and a lot better. When you look at the complexity of people's intellects, interests, what they achieve in their lives though, there are a lot of behaviors that make absolutely no sense. On one side we can hit great heights and on the other you see really strange and petty behaviors that persist, having people needing to put the next person down just to have something over them, quite often on things like appearance and gestalt, enough to where they don't want to know that person better because they like the power and they like having that over them. You also have times where when people want to really usurp someone's hold on a situation and really slam them in a way that they can't debate - you call them out on something they can't help, ie. race, heritage, etc.. You also see how guys, as intelligent as can be, are often enough drawn to complete pieces of work because they're eye candy just like women get drawn a lot of times to some really strange choices as well.

What I've at least always felt, all these behaviors, if we were purely logical and emotional beings which were at heart all about doing the right thing and bettering ourselves, these behaviors would have no real root, no beginning, if they surfaced just from abuse of some type you'd see the goodness of people band together and stop it just like you'd see dominance behavior, pettiness, and all sorts of other odd vices that we have deplored - almost to where you'd have something like a pettiness against all that. That's what I didn't understand, just like why someone being the best person they can be isn't good enough for the opposite sex sometimes. The only thing, I mean the ONLY that I can think of is genes. Yeah, we have intelligence, often feel a sense of spirituality and all that, but I think when it comes to specific behaviors - ie. mating, family rearing, etc. which are primatives and instinct guided that's where the ape in us grabs at us; just like when we were in highbschool or grade school and people were bucking for social heirarchy.

On that last one my parents made that mistake in raising me of telling me that they all just had low self esteem, it was them not me, and my taking that understanding was the worst thing I could have done - and as I understand now its because its only 30% true, the rest is really eugenics. After all if a kid transfers from school to school to school, and if all people aren't layed out on some behavioral blueprint, that kid could be hated in one school, normal in another, liked and disliked in another, you'd see more range of diversity. What really seems to happen is people just instinctively know whether they're supposed to or not supposed to like a person, treat them well, etc.. People try to blame culture but I don't think cultures nearly enough, that and where would culture have come from? Its a little to cohesive to be just a big evil coincidence.

And you know what - I think that is pretty much the whole debate summed up. Clearly I don't believe that, I think people are flawed but likeable. But then I'm lucky enough to have some evidence to support that*. A lot of men on this forum seem to have had terrible experiences with women, with people in general, so they end up hating humans enough to believe in something like the Ladder Theory. Hence i've tried to stem my anger about it.

I read http://www.laddertheory.com properly today. From the first page of its explanation, it sounds like it ought to be as hard on men as it is on women - apparently 30% of your attraction towards us is based on "chance she'll put out quickly"! !??! ! hahaha... but this is never talked about again. Instead he spends the rest of his rant slagging women. I know you didn't write this, LPP, I'm just pointing out that this might be why people view it as a little bit sexist, (when it shouldn't necessarily be).


*By which i mean, I've obviously had experience of being treated terribly too, (raped, abusive boyfriends, blah), but I have a few sympathetic NT friends who support me, and a couple of 'nice' boyfriends. Which changes my whole outlook.

Nah, the problem is people don't articulate their feelings well enough. You are seeing a very real side of it but there's another half and when we try to discuss the other half it sounds like we're all the way to the other side things when we're really seeing what you see AND what we see. Terrible experiences can be a part of it but then again when you go from their and way it all out empirically its not all in your head - its just that only people who've had it that hard get to see it as much, other people somehow catch a pass. When you have had it hard you also are, all of a sudden, aware of how many other people have it hard which you may not have been before; I'd think of it as an expansion of awareness rather than a skew.

Of course it's not in anybody's head because theses horrible things have happened to them, that's a fact, and it is a fact that this horrible side of humanity does exist. And you've expanded your awareness, but only your awareness of the horrible side of humanity, which I think can distort somebody's worldview.

let's forget about Juliekitty and kisty and their BS crying and go back to topic.

I bet that jkrane is going to fail in his method and this is why:

Jkrane thinks that jerky behavior is the secret key of being a girls magnet: WRONG.

Here the true combinations of being girls' magnet or not:

If you are hot and jerk ==> you can be a girls' magnet (I am not defining the type of girls in each combo, just evaluating in nbrs)
If you are ugly and jerk==> you cannot be a girls' magnet
If you are ugly and jerk but famous/successful ==> you can become girls' magnet
If you are hot and nice==>you can be a girls' magnet
if you are ugly and nice ==> you cannot be girls magnet
if you are ugly and nice but famous/successful ==> you can become girls' magnet

PS: Hot=masculine.


The bottom line ....being jerk will lead you nowhere if you neither hot or successful.

The thing is that most jerks are hot ,masculine and confident and that's why many guys think that these guys are girls' magnet because of their jerky behavior.

That's the problem and I just pointed that out before, I see the good side a lot, as much as you do, just that I don't talk about that as much in the love and dating forum or threads like this because its not whats on the plate and reinventing the wheel to declare everything I know and think about humanity would be a 4 page post, no one would read it. Sarah, if you go back to my first reply to you, before the last one, where I had a few paragraphs discussing this dichotomy, I explained it.

The guys here though, especially the ones who keep falling to what you referred to as the horrible side of humanity, know they will keep falling to it because it does work like clockwork, there is a stable rhyme and reason. Its wanting to control your environment, overcome obstacles, and to overcome obstacles like this you have to really understand why they exist, what they are, how they work, because its your only chance of having a prayer of overcoming them and having power over your own situation. Everyone wants that when you really think about that, to be handed a crap lot and told "Sorry, this is just you - you have no hope", no one handles that well unless its blatantly untrue - otherwise if life keeps reaffirming that you'll either fall out from depression or be obsessed with finding a solution. Focusing on the negative in that sense is just meant in terms of resolving the negative.

OK, I'm going back to the last one like you said. I'm sorry I didn't read it before.

Life is full of examples of intelligent people acting in not very intelligent ways and we're all especially good at doing it when it comes to the opposite sex. But I think we're all individuals even when it comes to our idiocies. The motives behind my various idiocies would include low self esteem, desperately wanting approval from someone I found charismatic, feeling dependent/addicted to someone's company... actually it sounds like just 'low self esteem' doesn't it? I would blame the menfolk in my life's idiocies on vastly inflated ego, cowardice, lack of consideration for others, and cocaine.

I think your post describes the grain of truth in evolutionary theories very well, but the bottom line is that these theories just generalise too far. By default, evolutionary theories will always expect the whole of each sex to act in the same way all of the time, hence they will always be limited in their usefulness. I think there are a LOT of women who fail to confirm to what these theories expect of them. You can probably confirm that there's a lot of men too.

Moving on to your most recent reply;

Yeah, I sometimes worry that by talking about the positive side I'm just winding people up. I probably need to start more of my own threads to be positive in.

Well, no one wants to be like the lab rat who keeps getting electric shocks over and over, if you keep doing the same thing you will get the same result and so on. And to actually get somewhere with this we have to understand our obstacles. But I don't think the Ladder Theory really gives anyone a way of getting over their problems, apart from possibly getting a 50k job and plastic surgery.