would you like to have amazing success with women?

Page 6 of 11 [ 167 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 11  Next

ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

13 May 2009, 1:26 pm

ManErg wrote:
Thinking about the implications of Alex's second post, he has a good point here. It led me to thinking that no person should be ashamed of having sexual desires. I believe the "mysterious factor" mentioned above is that if you are so ashamed, you hide them away, then you cease to be viewed as a man at all and aren't even on the scale. So all that stuff about having a "good job, nice house, OK looking, not overweight, non-aggresive etc etc" means nothing when most women are looking for a MAN with those attributes. You can have those attributes, but if you have been shamed into behaving like a gender-neutral eunach, then you are not considered as a 'possible' for 1 second because you have fallen at the first hurdle. You are not a man. Even the lowest of the low junkie who is not afraid to hide his sexuality ranks higher. At least he his a man and in the target group, although ranked low.

Men have made so many irresponsible decisions in life (even outside the realm of women) because the average man lets his penis think for himself...

Quote:
This explains the 'nice man' syndrome. By 'nice', too many of us mean "I am not overtly sexual with women" and/or "I make it clear to everyone that I do not see women as sex objects at all". This may be 'nice', but it is not 'man'. It is quite ill.

So you're saying it's preferable to be a serial rapist?

Quote:
I think on the inside I feel like I'm "doing the right thing", showing how much "nicer" I am than all those other men with their low down desires they can barely control, showing how much "I respect you as a person first and a female only second" because I'm interested "in your mind, not your body". On the outside, however, it comes across as an unreal, pathetic, gender-neutral weirdo with half of the normal male mind missing. (and the speculation is on what parts of the normal male physique may be missing to cause such problems). (Whoever heard of a lonely female reading intellectual books to attract a man? They go to the gym, they buy new clothes, they get new hairstyles. Think through what this means about what is important to a woman. And by being interested 'in her mind' and feigning disinterest in her body, you have, to her, dismissed all her hard work, what is important to her. And it was all a lie because unless you have faulty hormones, you were really much more interested in her body all along)

You know you're basically promoting the "she deserved it" defense of rape, which in all reality is a stupid defense...

Quote:
So even before you have a chance to, as Alex said "be sexual with a female", you actually have to show in some way that you are actually capable sexually. How are they to know you have an interest when you can't even admit it to yourself? This is the other extreme to b9's friend and no better a place to be.

It sounds like you want to regress to the 1950s...

Quote:
The cure? I don't know :roll: But it could begin with making an effort to get over this shame about being a male and the way we are made. One thing I've seen repeatedly is that male chauvinists get far more female attention than male feminists. The will get slapped more, they will get more hostility, they will get overtly disliked by some females, but they always have a woman or two. An emasculated male is safe, steady, never slapped and can have many good friends, but at they end of the day his perceived sexlessness will make him of interest only to asexuals.

Like I was saying before, the average man thinks with his penis, and to be honest, that kind of thinking leads to brash, irresponsible decisions... and thanks to that, women keep going on about how inherently immature the male gender itself is...



billsmithglendale
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,223

13 May 2009, 1:35 pm

Space wrote:
these threads are depressing as hell. The whole L+D forum could go in the trash, it's just one bad thread after another.


They're only depressing if you just read the negative and ignore the positive advice and experiences....
...but no one's holding a gun to your head -- just don't read the threads! :D :roll:



Haliphron
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,980

13 May 2009, 2:49 pm

ManErg wrote:
How come so many of them get it wrong, then? I'm sure we all know men who can repeatedly pull this trick off succesfully. It may be difficult for oft-rejected men to understand (and women generally keep it a closely guarded secret) , but maybe women just want sex to, sometimes :wink:



Actually, women Do want sex and many of them want it a LOT more than guys like you think!
Women are a lot pickier about who they have sex with and many of them have more control over their sexual impulses than men do. Such women use sex as a way to manipulate men; Im convinced that this is something that american mothers teach their daughters but many women figure it out on their own. People have said to me that a mans sex drive peaks at age 19 and a womans sex drive peaks at age 35. I keep reading about womens sex drives becoming very strong when they hit their 30s.
But Ive certainly encountered PUH-LEN-TY of young women in the college age range who pretty much wanna screw, just with the *right* guy. The higher a man's social status the more willing (young)women are to sleep with him right away.



Brusilov
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 330

13 May 2009, 3:34 pm

As a collective group, we men with AS have to get over this collective shame as males pounded into our heads by bullies, the feminists, and the media. Over the last 40 years, all we have ever seen is the media and culture wage a war against the "strong male" stereotype and unfortunately we have taken these messages to heart. Now we just act like demure little lambs around women for fear of doing anything wrong or displeasing them. We have been taught by schools and our culture to feel ashamed for who we are as men and thus we tend act submissively. Girls still don't like it when guys are on tiptoes around them; the oversensitivity is a huge turn-off.



billsmithglendale
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,223

13 May 2009, 3:43 pm

Brusilov wrote:
As a collective group, we men with AS have to get over this collective shame as males pounded into our heads by bullies, the feminists, and the media. Over the last 40 years, all we have ever seen is the media and culture wage a war against the "strong male" stereotype and unfortunately we have taken these messages to heart. Now we just act like demure little lambs around women for fear of doing anything wrong or displeasing them. We have been taught by schools and our culture to feel ashamed for who we are as men and thus we tend act submissively. Girls still don't like it when guys are on tiptoes around them; the oversensitivity is a huge turn-off.


Yes, I see far too much of the "demure little man" thing here. It's not to say we should be knuckle-dragging neanderthals, but it is ok to like guy things like guns, sports, action movies, porn, etc. Just don't let it get out of hand or dominate your life, and make an effort to include women in your hobbies. Women don't want to date themselves, they just want to be considered once in a while. And they like a challenge as well -- their version of hunting, taking down a wild guy.



ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

13 May 2009, 4:22 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Yes, I see far too much of the "demure little man" thing here. It's not to say we should be knuckle-dragging neanderthals, but it is ok to like guy things like guns, sports, action movies, porn, etc. Just don't let it get out of hand or dominate your life, and make an effort to include women in your hobbies. Women don't want to date themselves, they just want to be considered once in a while. And they like a challenge as well -- their version of hunting, taking down a wild guy.


Liking guy things is one issue... I (and most guys I know) are not ashamed of those types of interests. The issue is with the whole "not covering up one's sexuality" that is problematic... I know that if I let my "inner animal" loose, it's going to ruin everything for me... Deep inside, I'm actually a very impulsive highly emotional person, and before I learned to control that, lots of people got hurt on a regular basis, myself included... I have to keep that actual personality from ever resurfacing, lest it wreak even more havoc...



ManErg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2006
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,090
Location: No Mans Land

13 May 2009, 5:26 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Quote:
This explains the 'nice man' syndrome. By 'nice', too many of us mean "I am not overtly sexual with women" and/or "I make it clear to everyone that I do not see women as sex objects at all". This may be 'nice', but it is not 'man'. It is quite ill.

So you're saying it's preferable to be a serial rapist?


Not at all and I don't see how anything I wrote could lead to that conclusion :?

Quote:
Quote:
I think on the inside I feel like I'm "doing the right thing", showing how much "nicer" I am than all those other men with their low down desires they can barely control, showing how much "I respect you as a person first and a female only second" because I'm interested "in your mind, not your body". On the outside, however, it comes across as an unreal, pathetic, gender-neutral weirdo with half of the normal male mind missing. (and the speculation is on what parts of the normal male physique may be missing to cause such problems). (Whoever heard of a lonely female reading intellectual books to attract a man? They go to the gym, they buy new clothes, they get new hairstyles. Think through what this means about what is important to a woman. And by being interested 'in her mind' and feigning disinterest in her body, you have, to her, dismissed all her hard work, what is important to her. And it was all a lie because unless you have faulty hormones, you were really much more interested in her body all along)

You know you're basically promoting the "she deserved it" defense of rape, which in all reality is a stupid defense...


Again, I do not see how anything I wrote could lead to that conclusion. It's about balance and not going from extreme licentiousness to extreme denial. It is not easy (especially for an aspie) to get right, but somewhere in the middle is a healthier, more realistic outlook. I would like to reject the idea that male sexuality is dangerous, uncontrollable, evil. Acceptance of male sexuality does NOT lead to serial rapists, it leads to men who are *visibly* capable of being in a relationship with a woman. If anything, it is the denial of that, which will lead to someone becoming capable of rape. Appreciating females is fine. And not being frightened to show that appreciation is better, but this is what is often lacking due to exactly the chain of thought you seem to be displaying.

Quote:
It sounds like you want to regress to the 1950s...

Why cynically dismiss a whole decade that was in fact a very exciting and romantic time for many people who lived through it?


_________________
Circular logic is correct because it is.


ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

13 May 2009, 6:01 pm

ManErg wrote:
Again, I do not see how anything I wrote could lead to that conclusion. It's about balance and not going from extreme licentiousness to extreme denial. It is not easy (especially for an aspie) to get right, but somewhere in the middle is a healthier, more realistic outlook. I would like to reject the idea that male sexuality is dangerous, uncontrollable, evil.

I have to control it, lest it control me...

Quote:
Acceptance of male sexuality does NOT lead to serial rapists, it leads to men who are *visibly* capable of being in a relationship with a woman. If anything, it is the denial of that, which will lead to someone becoming capable of rape.

Treating women like sex objects, which is what you're suggesting, is what leads to rape...

Quote:
Appreciating females is fine. And not being frightened to show that appreciation is better, but this is what is often lacking due to exactly the chain of thought you seem to be displaying.

Depends on what you mean by "appreciate"... If you mean respecting a woman as a human being, then yes, I do appreciate women... I have to, lest my intense animalistic tendencies take over...

Quote:
Why cynically dismiss a whole decade that was in fact a very exciting and romantic time for many people who lived through it?
I mentioned the 1950s because that is the most recent time in human history where gender roles were heavily distinguished... nothing more than that...



ManErg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2006
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,090
Location: No Mans Land

13 May 2009, 6:35 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Quote:
Acceptance of male sexuality does NOT lead to serial rapists, it leads to men who are *visibly* capable of being in a relationship with a woman. If anything, it is the denial of that, which will lead to someone becoming capable of rape.

Treating women like sex objects, which is what you're suggesting, is what leads to rape...


I disagree on both points: 1) I am not suggesting that one should treat women purely as sex objects 2) I don't believe rape is caused by 'treating women as sex objects'.

Quote:
Quote:
Why cynically dismiss a whole decade that was in fact a very exciting and romantic time for many people who lived through it?
I mentioned the 1950s because that is the most recent time in human history where gender roles were heavily distinguished... nothing more than that...


OK, I see what you mean! Whatever gender 'roles' are assigned (by warped ideals), the genders will always be literally poles apart. It's an odd feeling, because when younger, I would have said the same as you say here. Realising that women are quite different to men and (outside of the workplace) do not want to be treated as if they are a man was a huge leap of understanding.


_________________
Circular logic is correct because it is.


ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

13 May 2009, 6:42 pm

ManErg wrote:
I disagree on both points: 1) I am not suggesting that one should treat women purely as sex objects

Okay, my bad on that one... I must be interpreting what you're saying not in the way you meant...

So how do women *want* to be treated? Like a human being or dirt?

Quote:
2) I don't believe rape is caused by 'treating women as sex objects'.

In all cases of rape, even those that are not male -> female rape, the rapist feels that he (or she) is inherently superior to the victim... Treating women as equals is the best deterrent to developing that mindset that allows rape to occur...

Quote:
OK, I see what you mean! Whatever gender 'roles' are assigned (by warped ideals), the genders will always be literally poles apart. It's an odd feeling, because when younger, I would have said the same as you say here. Realising that women are quite different to men and (outside of the workplace) do not want to be treated as if they are a men was a huge leap of understanding.

If they don't want to be treated like a human being, how do they want to be treated? This is the most confusing aspect of what you're trying to say...



b9
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,003
Location: australia

13 May 2009, 7:00 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
b9 wrote:
.
.

,


;

:


i do not know what this all means.
i think LPP inferred in his post that i was lying in my post, and then moderated it to not sound like an accusation, and softened it with a statement which amounts to "if THAT"S what you thought happened, then it does not add up (does not ring true)".

i do not know the meaning of the replies, but i assume that the first reply to LPP by 0_equals_true was a wink. which is means he agrees that it is a lie.
then the rest are just variations on the wink.

i am not sure what is so hard to believe about what i wrote. i did go there more than 800 times over the years, and the girls always were drinking alcohol when they sat next to me, and they sat next to me because there were no other tables.

if you (LPP) are in beirut, then i imagine the girls there are not the same in character as the girls in sydney. also, people in beirut may not be keen on going near a person with a brief case. i think you are appraising my story in the context of your own evironment.



alex
Developer
Developer

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,224
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

13 May 2009, 7:14 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Brusilov wrote:
As a collective group, we men with AS have to get over this collective shame as males pounded into our heads by bullies, the feminists, and the media. Over the last 40 years, all we have ever seen is the media and culture wage a war against the "strong male" stereotype and unfortunately we have taken these messages to heart. Now we just act like demure little lambs around women for fear of doing anything wrong or displeasing them. We have been taught by schools and our culture to feel ashamed for who we are as men and thus we tend act submissively. Girls still don't like it when guys are on tiptoes around them; the oversensitivity is a huge turn-off.


Yes, I see far too much of the "demure little man" thing here. It's not to say we should be knuckle-dragging neanderthals, but it is ok to like guy things like guns, sports, action movies, porn, etc. Just don't let it get out of hand or dominate your life, and make an effort to include women in your hobbies. Women don't want to date themselves, they just want to be considered once in a while. And they like a challenge as well -- their version of hunting, taking down a wild guy.


tip 3: the only guy thing you are required to like is sex with women.



DustinWX
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 185

13 May 2009, 7:45 pm

Do you have a girlfriend alex? Your advice is not all that great to be honest, women find me at least just weird. Ok, no they don't but the way I try to go about "trying to date them" is horrible. How do I get past this? Ok, first thing I could do is not facebook them to ask them out, but then after this?



A_Spock_Darkly
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2009
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 133

13 May 2009, 8:16 pm

In all fairness, Dustin, the man has hardly imparted any advice yet. Criticism at this point is premature.



Brusilov
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 330

13 May 2009, 8:47 pm

Women don't want to date a man that acts like a woman. They will be friends or cuddle b*****s with such a man, but they will not date him. It is the same for guys; We prefer our prospective girlfriends to be soft and feminine, not butch. Women would rather have a man's man instead of some fawning, obsequious, solitcitous man. And I prefer my dates to be very feminine.



NeantHumain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,837
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

13 May 2009, 9:47 pm

Brusilov wrote:
They have escort services in the phonebook, but those will run you $2000 for just one night with a girl and $5000 up front for actual sex. The girls from these services are bewilderingly hot. I just don't have that kind of money right now. Even if I did, that is just an exorbitant price to pay for one night of pleasure.

LoL. The women in the pictures aren't real; the businesses are probably sting operations to catch johns; and $2000-$5000 isn't the going rate.