Why do women always like to mess with guys?

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Not you in particular, just a lot of the posts I read. And it's normal for guys to have that frustration, but IMO from experience, unhealthy and counterproductive to meeting women.

Yikes! You have a really low bar for what constitutes being used. If that's what qualifies as being used for you, a relationship with an NT woman is not possible. Maybe an AS woman. I don't know. But definately not an NT woman. You have to cut people some slack- a lot of slack and not be on hair-trigger alert for being used, disrespected or lied to. Because if what she did was unacceptable to you, then NT women as a whole are unacceptable to you. They are not going to morph into AS women just because you think that morally they ought to. And I don't know if an AS woman could bear the level of scrutiny that you bring to a relationship either, although they would fare better at being direct.

If you are willing to accept women for being themselves, a relationship is possible. If you are going to insist that ordinary behaviour (which this was) is unacceptably deceitful and constitutes using you, a relationship is not possible.

Yes. This is all true.! !

That is not using you. That is asking you if you want something. She's ordering and she's asking if you want something too. It's offering to get you something to eat. Since you both knew you were stopping there I'm sure she figured that you might be hungry and if so then you would be thinking about what you want.

Exactly how is that using you? Would it not have been if she had asked you first? If she hadn't got her friend something to eat? How is that using you?


PaganMom

I am an AS woman and I would have ordered exactly the same way. To me, she was polite and asking if he wanted anything.

PaganMom

People don't know what they want. Stop expecting people to decide on life changing things in a matter of seconds. You only think you know what you want. If you have never had a proper reciprocal friendship, you are craving a concept. You don't know if it will give you want you want until you have experienced it for real.

You shouldn't even start on romance, until you have figure out friendship first.

If people have a choice, and some people do have more options, then why would they want someone who holds them to account every minute of the day? That is what you call extremist.

Let it drop? It seems to me that people here keep bring this stuff up. I have said many times that I do need tro change my view on the let's be friends thing. How many times am I goning to get attacked for it?

I feel my ex airport friend used me and did not care or respect me.

Last edited by KenM on 23 Nov 2009, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ok, I won't bring up the "lets be friends thing anymore. Fair enough.

However, if you think the (ex???) airport friend used you, didn't care anout you and disrespected you, a romantic relationship with a woman is very, very unlikely. Your bar for acceptable behaviour is simply too high. Or your bar for using/disrespecting is simply too low. It comes out to the same thing. What it comes out to is that you don't people any slack. I have almost certainly at various points behaved exactly like that woman and others have behaved exactly like her with me. I can't give exact examples because I don't keep score because it's not a problem. If it's a problem to you, then women (or perhaps people) in general are a problem to you. You can't expect women to live up to some sort of ideal you have in your head of what is ok for people to do. I don't think what she did was anything. But you have a problem with it.

If you can't accept people for who and how they are, you can't have a relationship. If you can't accept perfectly ordinary human behaviour because it doesn't conform to how you think people should be, you can't have a relationship.

There are two things you will need to do before a woman will want to stay with you.

1)cut slack- stop looking for things you think are examples of using,lying,manipulating, disrespecting etc. Because your bar for those things is WAAAYYY too low and so you will always find examples of those things. Ther things that you call using are notexamples of using. So cut slack. Then cut more. Then cut more.

2)Throw away the scorecard. If you keep score- she will leave


Remember, you are trying to attract a woman. If her life is not improved by being with you, she will not be with you. Why would she? What's in it for her? Try to look at it from a woman's point of view: why would she want to be with a man who is constantly holding her to account for her every move and every word? This would be horribly stressful for her. If a woman is stressed when she is with you and can't relax because she has to be on "respect and honesty" vigilance, she will not be with you.

I have looked at some of your other posts and you seem to bring it up yourself a lot, so it's obviously a problem for you. You say your trying to work on it, but there really isn't much to work on about the 'friends' thing. What exactly do you mean working on learning what "lets be friends" really means? That's what I don't understand. It's like when you learn to drive, someone tells you that a red light means stop. No matter what you want it to mean, or I want it to mean, it still means stop. Just like learning that 1 + 1 = 2. It's a polite way of saying that they don't want to date you. How do you mean you will 'work on it"? Do you mean working on accepting it?

How did she use you? By ordering first? How exactly did she use you?

PaganMom

You are the one that want to be friends they are yet to be sold on the idea unsurprisingly. You do the maths.

If you don't think you can get this concept, then giving up is your best option. Then you have to stop the cycle of complaining about it.

If I can distill the situation down to bare facts, it appears that you are upset that the person in question:

1) Did not reciprocate or respond in the way you wanted her to.
2) Decided for herself what information that she felt comfortable sharing with you, which conflicts with your sense of 'honesty'.
3) Left you feeling slighted because they: did not introduce you to their friend when they ran into each other; did not ask you what you wanted to eat at the same time that they asked another individual.

And to respond to each...

1) People are not obligated to make you happy, to do what you wish, or in the manner you desire. Resolving that issue involves adjusting how you choose to perceive the world instead of externalizing that through complaint and demand that others act according to your expectations.
2) See #1. She is under no obligation to share her personal life with you, even if you are friends already.
3) Again, this revolves around your expectations. If it was an issue, why didn't you bring it up after the phone call was made and before going to the fast food establishment?

One can choose to remain in a victim state, or move on from it. Right now, it seems as though you are closer to pursuing the former than the latter. If you wish to change, first you must move in order to see the difference in perspective. Forethought is a wonderful thing, but it does not replace action.


M.

Maybe Ken should get one of those foreign brides. Really. I saw a documentary about it. It costs a lot, but he's got a wife and since she wants to be a citizen, she will treat him however he wants to be treated.

Hey, it's an option

PaganMom

Well I felt she only wanted to come over and hang out with me from nantucket when she wanted something. A ride to the airport, a bed to stay in on cape cod. It was not just those few things. It was a number of things that made me feel that way. She never wanted to be a friend to me when I wanted. Only when she needed something. Friendship is supost to be a two way steet this was not.

Last edited by KenM on 23 Nov 2009, 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What does that have to do with how she ordered lunch?

Sometimes people ask an acquaintance to do something, like a ride to the airport, for compensation like gas money etc. Asking for a ride to the airport isn't really the first step to being friends, but it can be. You don't have to be someones friend to ask a favor. You could ask someone you work with etc. That's a regular thing. That may be what she wanted. People sometimes do favors for others who they know but aren't especially close to simply out of kindness with no expectation of compensation or of a closer relationship.

Wild concept huh?

PaganMom

Well, funny you should bring that time thing up! It might surprise you, to know that after multiple rejections, or coming down to earth after experiencing many crushes on highly unsuitable guys, I spent a total of 17 years alone? I was deeply mistrustful, and bitter, as well as terrified of getting burned again. So, yes, women can and do experience really long "dry spells." And suffer just as much as guys do, when they are going through them.

Very well put, HoS!