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The reason why LJBF hurts

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Kurgan
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02 May 2012, 5:16 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
what i never quite understand about LJBF is that people in my life aren't JUST friends... i treasure my friends and i hold them in high esteem. it is a slightly different sort of relationship but i do not think of it as lesser. when people have decided that they don't really want to be friends with me it hurt me as much as romantic rejection.


The issue is that the one person actually wants a romantic relationship, which is more than just friends. It's not that somehow friends are not valuable.

What I don't understand is why when a guy who's been friends with a girl says that he wants to be more than just friends and the girl doesn't feel the same way, it somehow means that the friendship was fake and underhanded manipulation to get something else out of it, as though being both friends and having a romantic relationship is incompatible. That's what LJBF generally means.

if someone is worth dating, then surely they are worth friendship. if not, then it's not a good idea to pursue dating either.


Not necessarily. A friend and a girlfriend is not the same. Whereas a girlfriend is someone to share intimate moments and emotions with, friends are someone you fix your car together with, go to the gym with or talk about sports with.



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02 May 2012, 5:18 pm

Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
what i never quite understand about LJBF is that people in my life aren't JUST friends... i treasure my friends and i hold them in high esteem. it is a slightly different sort of relationship but i do not think of it as lesser. when people have decided that they don't really want to be friends with me it hurt me as much as romantic rejection.


The issue is that the one person actually wants a romantic relationship, which is more than just friends. It's not that somehow friends are not valuable.

What I don't understand is why when a guy who's been friends with a girl says that he wants to be more than just friends and the girl doesn't feel the same way, it somehow means that the friendship was fake and underhanded manipulation to get something else out of it, as though being both friends and having a romantic relationship is incompatible. That's what LJBF generally means.

if someone is worth dating, then surely they are worth friendship. if not, then it's not a good idea to pursue dating either.


Not necessarily. A friend and a girlfriend is not the same. Whereas a girlfriend is someone to share intimate moments and emotions with, friends are someone you fix your car together with, go to the gym with or talk about sports with.


You can share the same things with your friend or a girlfriend/boyfriend.



DogsWithoutHorses
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02 May 2012, 5:20 pm

Kurgan wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

I don't answer the phone and if somebody tries to dump their problems onto me, I just tell them it's not my problem. Thus, I'm nobody's emotional tampon. Again: I don't pay for sex; trying to get someone into bed by being a Sisyphus is paying for sex.

With that being said, there are many insecure (but otherwise fine) men who would pick up the phone.


and lo all along the real problem was insecurity


And the ones who try to manipulate the insecure ones, thus fueling their insecurities.


:roll: "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent"
People need to stop externalizing their relationship issues.


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Kurgan
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02 May 2012, 5:24 pm

Joker wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
what i never quite understand about LJBF is that people in my life aren't JUST friends... i treasure my friends and i hold them in high esteem. it is a slightly different sort of relationship but i do not think of it as lesser. when people have decided that they don't really want to be friends with me it hurt me as much as romantic rejection.


The issue is that the one person actually wants a romantic relationship, which is more than just friends. It's not that somehow friends are not valuable.

What I don't understand is why when a guy who's been friends with a girl says that he wants to be more than just friends and the girl doesn't feel the same way, it somehow means that the friendship was fake and underhanded manipulation to get something else out of it, as though being both friends and having a romantic relationship is incompatible. That's what LJBF generally means.

if someone is worth dating, then surely they are worth friendship. if not, then it's not a good idea to pursue dating either.


Not necessarily. A friend and a girlfriend is not the same. Whereas a girlfriend is someone to share intimate moments and emotions with, friends are someone you fix your car together with, go to the gym with or talk about sports with.


You can share the same things with your friend or a girlfriend/boyfriend.


There's a certain overlap, but I'd rather not have sex with my current friends or bro talk with a girlfriend.



Kurgan
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02 May 2012, 5:25 pm

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

I don't answer the phone and if somebody tries to dump their problems onto me, I just tell them it's not my problem. Thus, I'm nobody's emotional tampon. Again: I don't pay for sex; trying to get someone into bed by being a Sisyphus is paying for sex.

With that being said, there are many insecure (but otherwise fine) men who would pick up the phone.


and lo all along the real problem was insecurity


And the ones who try to manipulate the insecure ones, thus fueling their insecurities.


:roll: "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent"
People need to stop externalizing their relationship issues.


They can if you're sensitive to criticism.



Joker
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02 May 2012, 5:26 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
what i never quite understand about LJBF is that people in my life aren't JUST friends... i treasure my friends and i hold them in high esteem. it is a slightly different sort of relationship but i do not think of it as lesser. when people have decided that they don't really want to be friends with me it hurt me as much as romantic rejection.


The issue is that the one person actually wants a romantic relationship, which is more than just friends. It's not that somehow friends are not valuable.

What I don't understand is why when a guy who's been friends with a girl says that he wants to be more than just friends and the girl doesn't feel the same way, it somehow means that the friendship was fake and underhanded manipulation to get something else out of it, as though being both friends and having a romantic relationship is incompatible. That's what LJBF generally means.

if someone is worth dating, then surely they are worth friendship. if not, then it's not a good idea to pursue dating either.


Not necessarily. A friend and a girlfriend is not the same. Whereas a girlfriend is someone to share intimate moments and emotions with, friends are someone you fix your car together with, go to the gym with or talk about sports with.


You can share the same things with your friend or a girlfriend/boyfriend.


There's a certain overlap, but I'd rather not have sex with my current friends or bro talk with a girlfriend.


True but ive had sex with friends befor and bro talk with a girlfriend.



JanuaryMan
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02 May 2012, 5:27 pm

Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
what i never quite understand about LJBF is that people in my life aren't JUST friends... i treasure my friends and i hold them in high esteem. it is a slightly different sort of relationship but i do not think of it as lesser. when people have decided that they don't really want to be friends with me it hurt me as much as romantic rejection.


The issue is that the one person actually wants a romantic relationship, which is more than just friends. It's not that somehow friends are not valuable.

What I don't understand is why when a guy who's been friends with a girl says that he wants to be more than just friends and the girl doesn't feel the same way, it somehow means that the friendship was fake and underhanded manipulation to get something else out of it, as though being both friends and having a romantic relationship is incompatible. That's what LJBF generally means.

if someone is worth dating, then surely they are worth friendship. if not, then it's not a good idea to pursue dating either.


Not necessarily. A friend and a girlfriend is not the same. Whereas a girlfriend is someone to share intimate moments and emotions with, friends are someone you fix your car together with, go to the gym with or talk about sports with.


They aren't the same, that's for sure, but nothing to stop you having a girl that's just a friend. I'm guessing the items you listed as doing with friends were meant to be "guy only" activities.



Kurgan
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02 May 2012, 5:33 pm

Joker wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
what i never quite understand about LJBF is that people in my life aren't JUST friends... i treasure my friends and i hold them in high esteem. it is a slightly different sort of relationship but i do not think of it as lesser. when people have decided that they don't really want to be friends with me it hurt me as much as romantic rejection.


The issue is that the one person actually wants a romantic relationship, which is more than just friends. It's not that somehow friends are not valuable.

What I don't understand is why when a guy who's been friends with a girl says that he wants to be more than just friends and the girl doesn't feel the same way, it somehow means that the friendship was fake and underhanded manipulation to get something else out of it, as though being both friends and having a romantic relationship is incompatible. That's what LJBF generally means.

if someone is worth dating, then surely they are worth friendship. if not, then it's not a good idea to pursue dating either.


Not necessarily. A friend and a girlfriend is not the same. Whereas a girlfriend is someone to share intimate moments and emotions with, friends are someone you fix your car together with, go to the gym with or talk about sports with.


You can share the same things with your friend or a girlfriend/boyfriend.


There's a certain overlap, but I'd rather not have sex with my current friends or bro talk with a girlfriend.


True but ive had sex with friends befor and bro talk with a girlfriend.


I'm well aware of the fact that some girls have sex with their friends, but it's more common in the states than here. Furthermore, I don't see any of my female friends that way.

If a girlfriend started talking about unfeminine stuff like how she's very close to bench pressing 330 lbs or about how she's built a kickass computer to play Call of Duty something-something at 150 fps, I'd not exactly be turned on.



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02 May 2012, 5:34 pm

Roman wrote:
I read on various other forums ladies were saying that when the guy "dismisses" their friendship unless he gets a "reward", it indicates that he was using the woman as a "sex object",and they try to point out how friendship has its own value, with or without reward. I do see their point and, in fact, I don't think any man really addressed it properly (at least not in the posts that I read). Let me therefore go ahead and try to explain my side of the story to the women who think along these lines.

So basically, it has nothing to do with reward itself. Instead, it has to do with the motive behind withholding the reward. Lets put sex aside for a second and imagine different situation. Suppose we were living in one of these old fashioned families that would serve the food first to the most respected member. And suppose I was consistently given the food last. In this case, I won't want to be friends with them either. Now, does this mean I am "using" people for food? No! I simply don't like to feel put down. Now with relationships it is the same thing. Women traditionally select the man based on status. So the fact that the woman is not willing to be my girlfriend is a reflection of the fact that she sees me as low status. Now, why would anyone (male or female) want to be friends with anyone else (male or female) who judges them? They won't.

And to make my point even stronger: I don't even want to have sex before marriage (for religious reasons) and I am too afraid to marry any time soon. So whatever relationship I would agree to have, would be without sex, by default. But, despite all that, I still find it insulting when I hear "lets just be friends" for the reason cited above. So, at least in my case, being insulted by LJBF has nothing to do with "using" anyone for sex (which I don't want to have anyway).


Their perception of a man's "status" is different from one woman to another. It's not a "one size fits all" type deal.


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02 May 2012, 5:35 pm

JanuaryMan wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
what i never quite understand about LJBF is that people in my life aren't JUST friends... i treasure my friends and i hold them in high esteem. it is a slightly different sort of relationship but i do not think of it as lesser. when people have decided that they don't really want to be friends with me it hurt me as much as romantic rejection.


The issue is that the one person actually wants a romantic relationship, which is more than just friends. It's not that somehow friends are not valuable.

What I don't understand is why when a guy who's been friends with a girl says that he wants to be more than just friends and the girl doesn't feel the same way, it somehow means that the friendship was fake and underhanded manipulation to get something else out of it, as though being both friends and having a romantic relationship is incompatible. That's what LJBF generally means.

if someone is worth dating, then surely they are worth friendship. if not, then it's not a good idea to pursue dating either.


Not necessarily. A friend and a girlfriend is not the same. Whereas a girlfriend is someone to share intimate moments and emotions with, friends are someone you fix your car together with, go to the gym with or talk about sports with.


They aren't the same, that's for sure, but nothing to stop you having a girl that's just a friend. I'm guessing the items you listed as doing with friends were meant to be "guy only" activities.


The few female friends I have I've known for years. I can talk to them about stuff like South Park, weightlifting and cars--thus, I like being friends with them and it's really no different than having guy friends.

The common denominator is that I've met them through other friends or through school, not from failed dates. :P



Last edited by Kurgan on 02 May 2012, 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jono
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02 May 2012, 5:36 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Jono wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
what i never quite understand about LJBF is that people in my life aren't JUST friends... i treasure my friends and i hold them in high esteem. it is a slightly different sort of relationship but i do not think of it as lesser. when people have decided that they don't really want to be friends with me it hurt me as much as romantic rejection.


The issue is that the one person actually wants a romantic relationship, which is more than just friends. It's not that somehow friends are not valuable.

What I don't understand is why when a guy who's been friends with a girl says that he wants to be more than just friends and the girl doesn't feel the same way, it somehow means that the friendship was fake and underhanded manipulation to get something else out of it, as though being both friends and having a romantic relationship is incompatible. That's what LJBF generally means.

if someone is worth dating, then surely they are worth friendship. if not, then it's not a good idea to pursue dating either.


I agree with that but that's not the point. The point is that if you were friends before and you later reveal that you want a romantic relationship, the girl then sees the friendship you had as simply a manipulation in order to either get sex or a girlfriend even if, to you, the friendship was real.

You therefore run the risk of losing the friendship as well if you reveal your feelings to someone who has supposedly "friendzoned" you. I have even women in the L&D forum actually say that men who are both friends with women first and then hope to have a romantic relationship later are just manipulating them even though that friendship may actually be real.

Being seen as the "like a brother" kind of friends is already a kind of romantic rejection but it wouldn't be as bad if you didn't run the risk of losing the friendship as well just because you were either too shy, didn't have the courage or didn't know how to reveal that you wanted a romantic relationship earlier.



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02 May 2012, 6:21 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
beezy wrote:
Beginning of page 4.

Didn't mean to jump into this thread and pick on an isolated comment like that tho. Was impulsive. I've got nothing rly to contribute to the discussion, don't mind me.

you're right. are you disagreeing?


With DogsWithoutHorses (sorry) yes. I'm touchy about the accusation 'misogynist' being used lightly, and it was just an impulsive response. Haven't got much else to say. I agree you you re: the op btw. It can be surprising how friendships endure.. the intensity of romance gives the impression it's worth more I suppose.



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02 May 2012, 7:16 pm

Kurgan wrote:
If a girlfriend started talking about unfeminine stuff like how she's very close to bench pressing 330 lbs or about how she's built a kickass computer to play Call of Duty something-something at 150 fps, I'd not exactly be turned on.

A girl building a computer to play video games on is hawt. :heart:


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02 May 2012, 7:26 pm

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
It's different because it's gendered.

Tampons aren't really gendered. They are gender specific, but so are urinals. If we were talking about 'emotional urinals' or 'emotional kleenex' nobody would be worried about the insult to all penises and/or noses everywhere.

Quote:
They aren't physically forcing you to listen to their problems while laughing maniacally and rubbing their hand together while they carry out their evil plan to never touch your penis.

:lmao:

Well put.


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02 May 2012, 7:33 pm

KenM wrote:
For me, the reason LJBF hurts is 95% of the time someone said that to me, they did not really mean it. They said it to let me down easy. This hurt me more because they were not honest.

LJBF is a canned phrase meaning "No thank you". It isn't meant literally any more than the answer to the question "What's up?" is "The sky".


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Kurgan
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02 May 2012, 7:42 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
KenM wrote:
For me, the reason LJBF hurts is 95% of the time someone said that to me, they did not really mean it. They said it to let me down easy. This hurt me more because they were not honest.

LJBF is a canned phrase meaning "No thank you". It isn't meant literally any more than the answer to the question "What's up?" is "The sky".


Saying "let's just be friends" if you don't want to be friends, can be compared to when parents tell their seven year old son that Derp the rabbit went to live on a farm or is on a ski resort for bunnies, when he was actually eaten by Al, the neighbor cat.