is this consider friendzone

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hahaha really? maybe i don't see the worst in people. you didn't answer my question.

^^ Surely way more than 1%, hyper!!

what would you estimate? like, there are a room full of 100 of your relatives and colleagues and friends and acquaintances and neighbours. what proportion are narcissistic shallow abusers?

For friends it's none because I wouldn't stay friend with someone like that. But through the making-friends/dating process you might encounter a lot.

I am not very close to family members and neighbors, so the hell I know, do you think those who are would put NSA (narcissistic shallow abusers) on their foreheads? lol

But out of all relatives and extended family, I know for sure 5 of them who are/were abusers toward their spouses/family in their life.

When you date someone you are seeking a relationship. You date to see if a relationship can come out of it. Its why its called a 'date' not 'hanging out' (or any other such term). In your sentence there you accuse me of being manipulative and messed up... terms that can only be applicable if my 'agenda' was sex.

I really am trying to understand what your definition of a date is.



I was upfront from the start. She wasn't. How can I put it in simpler terms for you?. This wasn't a case of us 'dating' and she realizing near the end we weren't compatible... she knew this from the very start.

The amazing this is it seems to me that you think a guy must ask every single time 'is this a date or not?' to the girl. Things don't happen that way. FYI she did call them dates during the time this was happening.



I fully agree with your 2nd half of the statement. Of course I was happy. We were dating and getting closer. I never assumed from the start it would end up in a relationship or 'manipulated' anything. Now, the first part you're incorrect since you assume that at the time we were not dating... in action and word she did go on dates with me.



Enlighten me please.



It was called 'a date'. It wasnt just '2 friends going out together' either.





let me get this straight.... We're close friends for years and we get so close to the point where the normal 'hang out as friends' becomes very constant. I tell her my feelings for her and that I would like to see how things turn out ..literally asking her if she wanted to see if we could be more than friends and she accepts... we go out on dates (in action and word). After a long while I ask her to officially be my GF and that's when she tells me that from the very start she knew it wouldn't ever happen (ergo, its not that I was on the bottom of her list..I wasn't even on the list to begin with); that she was going out with me because she enjoyed it and she never thought of them as 'real dates'...that she thought of me as someone she could be with but not WITH, a 'safe' guy (all her BF's , past and present are very abusive emotionally and some physically).

I dont see how I was 'sneaking' it in. I went above and beyond to make things very clear. She used me as an emotional crutch and was fully aware of it from the start. I know this girl very well and I know she has relationship issues from the trauma of the guys she has been with before (and now) so I do not hold what she did against her in anger or anything. She knows this and she knows it is very hard for me to hang out with her because of all of this. We talk and I help her as a friend should but there is a burnt bridge between us now.

My situation is eerie similar to rabits in the point where I do care about her very much and she is now involved with a guy that deals and does drugs and is really up to no good but wow, he's poorly educated but is street smart, charming and a sweet talker. Go figure. Heck last week the guy almost got himself killed in an alcohol+drug related accident. What bothers me is that I don't know how to help her or how to be a friend to her after this.

The topic again however, is the friend zone itself. Her actions are a perfect description of friend-zoning a guy. Behaving like there is something going while knowing full well there isn't and not informing the other party of it.

you said you were not in a relationship with her officially. you said you were friends. you were being very unclear here though i think i have it now - you said you tried to make it official and she said no. it sounds like she gave you a chance in spite of sensing it wasn't going to go anywhere, just in case feelings could develop against all odds.


i have never heard someone say that they were just friends with someone, but that they were going on dates with them. that is quite odd because it is undefined. the people i know are either dating someone or they are not. if they are dating that person, they are in a relationship (it can be a casual or open relationship, but it still qualifies). by that definition, you were in a relationship with her and she broke up with you.


i can't see how she used you in this explanation. you told her your feelings, which she didn't ever say she returned. she only said she would try it out with you. she gave you a chance to see if it would go anywhere and her feelings didn't develop. she knew it was unlikely, but she cared enough to try anyways. she probably learnt for next time that a long shot is not worth trying for, but that doesn't mean she did anything wrong in giving you a chance.

I disagree. I'm going to use a poker analogy to explain why I agree with Dantac:
Dantac agrees to play his hand face up if she agrees to play. She does.
The girl does not show her hand.
The flop happens and they both agree to keep playing through the turn round and then the river round...where it's decision time.
She folds..saying she never took the game seriously.

How has she not used Dantac? She could of folded at any point during any round and she did not.

yeah... she did fold. she rejected him.

She could of folded at any point in the game. She could of folded before the flop, or at the turn round, but no, she kept on playing until Dantac said 'check' - and dismissed the whole game as non-serious, when it was clearly the opposite...

lol poker is starting to make sense to me now

^ that is what friend zoned is in my book.

I'm not saying im angry she 'gave me the chance' as you put it... but she was very clear when we talked that she knew it was never going to happen. Like I said, I wasn't even 'on the list'.

Thing is, I don't feel used. I did enjoy the time with her and it was never spent with a 'this for that' attitude. Its just the fact that she chose to do this (and for so long) that hurts.

Lol. The difficult part of Poker isn't really about the cards you hold, more how about how you can bluff (fool) and read the other player(s)



But you do feel hurt. If she wasn't playing seriously she could of ended the game earlier and reduced the pain you're feeling.

If she never even put you on the list as you call it, then she should of not agreed to even start the game. It just gets worse in my opinion. Downright malicious that is.

I don't want to start a heated argument but if the shoe was on the other foot, there would be hell to pay for that kind of treatment.

she folded when he asked if she wanted to be in a relationship - the exact point when it made perfect sense. she did not deceive him, did not pretend to have feelings when she did not. it's not like she promised anything or lied.

his strategy really did not make sense. i would not advise anyone to pursue a relationship with someone who is uncertain like that. i am not sure what he expected - to convince her? that her feelings would evolve?

but nonetheless, she could not win. countless times on countless threads, people on this forum have complained of friends not giving them a chance. well, he got that chance! now the complaints are over the fact he got a chance but she didn't reject him fast enough. seriously, there is no winning.

I disagree again! He clearly states that afterwards she calmly tells him that he was never on the list.
So if she never had any intention for a relationship with this guy - why did she agree to go on a date?

He explicitly says "Hey I have these feelings for you and would like to on a date" - if he was never on the list, why, why, why say yes?!

She should of declined to go on a date. But no she doesn't stop this charade at the first date. So they go on a second, third, fourth - I don't know how many dates - before he asks her to seal what he thought was a successful process, after all why would she go on so many dates before saying anything, only to find out that she never took the process seriously.

What part isn't deceiving?
So, so many times she could of ended this charade, but she kept it going. For what?
What is the point of repeatedly going on dates with a person you don't feel attracted to? And then how are they supposed to feel when you say, "Oh, I didn't take it seriously, even though you said you had all those feelings for me, and took me out on dates"



What other strategy is there? As a guy you approach a girl, that may or may not feel any attraction to you - the only confirmation you get as a guy is if she says yes or no. If she says yes then as a guy, I would assume she is attracted to me and wanted to go on dates to see if a relationship would work. That's dating. We literally walk in blind with our hearts on the guillotine expecting them swiftly cut. That's how brutal dating is for guys.



She could not win, because she said "Yes, I will go on a date with you, knowing that you have all these feelings and I do not"
The fact she has a list is bloody disgraceful anyway.

she agreed to give it a try - whether or not the odds were stacked against that is not relevant. she agreed to attempt it. Dantac interpreted that part about the list, she didn't say it. all she ever told him was that she never had feelings for him - which he already knew! feelings did not develop, and if there are hard feelings over that it is because he was imagining more than there was.

why why why would he ever ask her out if he knew she didn't have feelings for him? he was fully aware of that fact at the outset, but he convinced her to try anyways. it was doomed to fail - anybody could see that.

this makes no sense whatsoever. if he was unhappy dating someone who had no feelings for him... he shouldn't have done that. she never pretended otherwise. all she did was go along with his request, ill-fated as it was.

you put her in that position, she didn't do anything to you.

hyperlexian, you've misread his statement. He clearly states she only told him that her non-interest after she agreed to go on a date:
" After a long while I ask her to officially be my GF and that's when she tells me that from the very start she knew it wouldn't ever happen "

It wasn't a case of Dantac knew beforehand, or else he wouldn't of bothered even asking for a date. She went along, knowing full well that she did not want a relationship. The blame is on her, completely.