How does one behave on a 'second date'?

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Thank you. What I've also found out however is I won't be gone for as long as I predicted.

I'll only be away for just 1 week and the holiday's is 2 weeks long.

Perhaps I could see her maybe one or two times in this second week once I get back.

Well, there you go.

It's not very romantic to lock someone into a relationship just before you disappear. That's never any fun. You want to get the ball rolling and keep it rolling. Which is why one month uninterrupted is such a good thing.

One thing I left out of my dating plan that is vitally important for newbs is when you first start out, you're not just hanging out with one woman. This is to increase the likelihood that you'll find at least one person who likes you back, ideally more than just one person, and you'll be able to choose someone you feel most compatible with. You've skipped to the more exclusive approach, which is fine for people who have gotten to know several moos already, who are pretty confident about meeting moos, and don't feel they have anything to lose by setting laser sights on just one person. Probably the vast majority of relationships form that way.

Something else you should probably tweak in the way you mentally approach this is the idea of "getting the girl," as in getting her to like you or "fall in love" with you. We haven't talked about this very much. A lot of guys have successfully used manipulative tactics to sway a girl's emotions in his favor. You don't really do yourself any favors going that route. And you also have to consider that any advice that I or anyone else can give you really just puts you in the ballpark. It's not a guarantee that you're going to "make" her have the hots for you.

That's why I always preach sincerely putting her interests ahead of your own. And I stress "sincerely." If you're a fake, once she officially becomes your gf, you're going to get lazy. When you get lazy, you get boring. When you get boring, she sees you for the fake you are and breaks up with you. Disaster almost always comes to those with evil motives. I think Charles Manson was a bigger fan of Dale Carnegie than I am and used the same techniques I'm suggesting. What we hope for is when we draw people into our circles that nobody ends up dead or in prison. The changes Susan Atkins made and the good she did later in life will always be overshadowed by the fact that California put her in the slammer, threw away the key, and left her there to rot. Don't be a depraved lunatic. Just love people.

I've encountered a new possible problem, or as usual my negative thinking is affecting things.

Its possible she's making up excuses not to see me.

We went out for coffee tuesday and i asked if i could see her again thursday or friday.

She said she was busy so i suggested something on the weekend, not saturday because i am busy but sunday.

At first we went back and forth with a few ideas of what to do on sunday, the next day she says she has work 'all weekend' and 'long, 7 hours shifts'.

Earlier this afternoon I suggested to just see her for coffee again maybe sunday. or monday. or tuesday. when she is ready and not busy. And that I want her to take her time to decide.

She said she 'doesn't know' and will have to get back to me.

Well, I'm not going to bother her anymore for now and wait all weekend until asking about it again.

But...still.

It's possible im going across as too needy/obsessive. F*ck my life. I need to focus on other things instead of just her.

Or like i said its possible she really is just busy. I mean, she would have schoolwork and yea she does have a job.

It's just the Sunday thing that threw me off.

One night I suggest doing something on sunday and basically get a maybe, next day a no because she has work.

I feel like ive made a mistake of some sort or done something wrong. If i have, again f*ck my life.

If I am just overthinking things as usual, then lets hope so.

I need to go ahead and write a book…

But, yeah, you ARE over thinking things. If you have some time, you can revisit how I like to handle rejection.

If you're following my advice on getting dates, you'll know I have a "rule of 3." Here's how it works:

Any time you ask a woman out, it has to be date specific. You ask for one particular day. Don't fish for more. You might get her on that day, you might not. But you don't ask about other days. Why is that? It comes across as harassing. "I said 'no,' enough is enough." If you get rejected for that one day, you leave it alone. If she's really busy, she might just want one day to herself.

Now, this is where the "rule of 3" begins.

This is your first rejection. It's probably legit. Don't read anything into it. Leave it alone.

Come back a week later. If there's a day you know she normally has no work or other activities, ask her out no less than 3 days ahead of that day. See if she accepts.

If she rejects you, this is rejection #2. Probably legit, but it's also a possible indicator that her interests are leaning in a different direction. In my mind, this is a pretty serious strike against a possible relationship candidate. But I'm all about giving people a fair chance. So I would give it one more week.

So you come back a week later and she still rejects you. This is rejection #3. Rejection #3 says, "Get lost, buddy…not interested." That's the we're-done-here rejection. Please, for the sake of your mental and emotional health, forget this girl.

I still find it troubling that you're so focussed on her. I don't really know your situation that well, but begging for dates and pestering her about every single day of the week comes across creepy at worst, desperate at best. Women find that to be a turn-off…and women who enjoy these kinds of games are not the kinds of women you want to end up in a relationship with. Trust me on that…had to learn that from experience, and it wasn't fun. So when I say you need to wait a week between asking her out on dates, I mean that as a MINIMUM. Ideally, it would take a lot longer to even get around to asking her out because you're too busy entertaining other women in between.

Another thing, and why I think I should just write a book: My ideas on dating are not original. Some of it is from my own experience and a lot of bitterness towards two individuals I'm having a difficult time letting go of…and all this after more than 10 years. My conclusion is that dating in the conventional sense is dead and trying to get into relationships that way is just beating a dead horse. PUA literature is solid psychologically, completely backwards morally and ethically, and utterly abusive in practice. In short, PUAs are dead on in what they say, horribly wrong in what they actually DO. So stay away from them. As I've mentioned before, I'm a huge fan of Dale Carnegie, and his teachings regarding HR are easily applicable to to dating and relationships.

And while I'm a child of the 80's, I more admire the dating practices of American affluent and upper middle class families back in the 1950's. You really had to be severely imbecilic not to get a date back then. The reason why is that boys and girls from those socio-economic classes used dating as a way to get to know each other and their families. Sexual mores were conservative to the point of outright repression (personally, I don't think that's a bad thing, but whatever), so most of the time you didn't really worry about inappropriate behavior. Girls could go out with a different guy every week, boys could go out with different girls every week. And girls really did have a lot of power, because they were taught that while it's ok to accept dates and see someone new every weekend, that didn't mean she had to be an easy date, i.e. accept every request. Over time, a girl and a boy might "go steady," but it took a lot more than 3 dates to get there. Bfs/gfs were just part of the family, and everybody knew each other and got together at barbecues and stuff. It wasn't that big a deal.

See, nobody does this anymore, which is why dating sucks so bad. For dating to be successful, you have to reevaluate what dating success actually means. For me, that would simply mean never spending an entire weekend alone. Forget romance, forget relationships. Just have a good time. The other stuff will come naturally over time. Enjoy the time you have for as long as you have it. When both of you are ready, you won't have to wonder.

You better not break this girls heart. Someone opening up to you like that is a big deal and it means that she trusts you. It would be devastating to her if you let her down now. Be a gentleman and treat her right and you should do fine.

That's all I got.

Just me overthinking again.

Some good news: SHE asked ME to the movies.

That's a first.

It was always me making the suggestions but this...this has surprised me.

Cool!

If she strokes your hand or something, I would stroke it back, and perhaps kiss the hand.

Otherwise, when you have the inevitable urges, just think to yourself: "Whoa there, Trigger!"

I think having a substantive discussion about the movie is much more valuable than getting a little "tongue action."

I sense that she wants to take things slowly.

Yeah...agreed...

Update: *Sigh*, she's one smart cookie, I'll give her that.

How foolish and naive of me.

Of all the people who would be very good at reading between the lines and picking up the behavior of others, an author would probably someone VERY skilled at it.

Well, we went to the movies together.

And, afterwards we went to sit down and hang out at a local restaurant.

While getting our drinks and sitting down, I kept trying to ask her to see me again next Tuesday.

She said she had to tell me something. She said it was the 'awkward part'.

She started to realize my feelings for her the second time I saw her.

At the start of the 'second date', I remember I said to her "When two people go out together on a DATE or a hangout, I think the asker is the one who should do the paying."

I thought little of this when I said it, but she quickly picked up the idea that I might not see our little 'hangout's' as just hangouts but actual dates.

She really did see our 'hangouts' as just that - hangouts.

But she recognized the fact that I considered them and implied them to be dates.

She tells me she mentioned how she was bisexual the second date to try and drive me away. She also knew the fact that I hugged her also indicated my feelings for her.

Anyway, here are some of the details:

You wanna know the exact details? Start to finish?

We had watched the movie and then she needed to find an ATM at the shopping centre.

It was closed so we decided to just go to Mcdonald's.

We were going to go after the movie we just had to find the ATM first.

Once we got to Macca's I bought her a coke and we sat down.

I kept trying to ask her if she would like to go out again sometime, say Tuesday to mcdonald's to have another coffee.
She needed to tie her shoe and kept saying "Okay, sorry but this is the awkward part. Are you ready? This is my warning to you, but, yeah. It's the awkward part" and stuff like that.

She said:
"I'm not really that oblivious (blind), and, I know what you're trying to do. And...honestly...I've just got to say...you're a great guy and all and I've had a lot of fun with you (lists all the things she likes about me and the fun we've had) but...I'm just not interested. You've caught the wrong girl. I want a girlfriend right now. But! Guess what! I can help you get a gf now from now on! Literally you ever need help with talking to girls and stuff come to me (blah blah blah).

So, yeah. Hey. (which is her way of trying to calm things down)."

She literally tried jumping into the next thing to talk about but I wouldn't have any of it.

I mostly kept my sad feelings inside but still made it really g0ddamn clear that yes, I am hurting inside.

We talked about it after for a long while at least 5 minutes we said many different things that I don't want to type in.
But there were some interesting things she said like

"I was in her scope" (at the start of the year out of all the guys in our classes she did notice me and thought I was kind of cute and other things like that. She basically said yes she did notice me and thought I was one of the attractive boys in her class).

She also said there's different 'zones'.

Friendzone being just friends, the 'Potential/possible boyfriend zone' and the 'I barely know you, I've only ever met you like 6 times before zone' and said I AM still in the possible boyfriend zone and still will be there but she just likes girls right now and wants a girlfriend more. Like I said she's bisexual but prefers females right now and isn't looking for a boyfriend.

Apparently I'm "yeah still just in that zone but like, I like girls right now so yeah."

I agreed we will be friends for now but y'know what she said: she agreed in the future if she ever started wanting a boyfriend again then maybe just maybe then yeah i might be a possiblity again.

She basically said "I'm looking for a GIRLFRIEND right now, sorry. But in the future when I want a boyfriend again, you're not an instant no, but a maybe".

I tried to convince her if she ever wanted a boyfriend again to make sure Im at the top of her list, but I couldn't and we both just agreed on a 'maybe, who knows'.

We were walking and talking then to our families where they wanted to meet us and we talked about other people noticing us and thinking we love each other.

And she also she said there were some boys she would be just friends with for a long time but still ended up being their girlfriend and said there is still the possibility/potential that I could be there.

Apparently she was friends with this one boy for 3 years before they become boyfriend and girlfriend and had begun a relationship together.

I.

AM.

STUCK.

What do I do NOW?

You could just say "She only wants to be friends, you need to get over her and stop loving her and only be her friend." but she admitted that I still have a chance, she just prefers women right now...

And she wasn't just being 'polite' either to hurt my feelings less.

She is a very honest girl when it comes to these sort of things and I can just tell she was telling the truth. I asked her several times if she really did mean that, that I am still in the 'possible boyfriend' zone and still might be in the future and that there is still some hope in the 'distant future' that we might end up together if she wants to get a boyfriend again and she said yes and that she really was being 100% true and honest when she said that.

So...WHAT DO I DO?

My ideas:

1. Never talk to her again...But, she really is a good friend and I would like to be friends with her.

2. Get rid of any romantic feelings for her i have and keep things purely platonic?

3. Keep my romantic feelings (but hide them) or just don't get rid of my romantic feelings completely and wait for when my moment to come back in and try and start dating her again in the future?

4. ??? Remain persistant and go above and beyond to win her heart (but it's a bad idea. I should be able to accept she likes girls more right now and is looking for a girlfriend)...

5. Remain friends and see if things can still develop naturally in the future. Who knows. Maybe 6 months from now we could still be friends, start hanging out a little more and naturally progress into a relationship?

6. What YOU suggest?

But what do you suggest I do?

EDIT:

I just wanted to add, that my suspicions were TRUE. I kept asking myself "Does she know my feelings for her or is she at least starting to think about just what my feelings for her are" and she really did.

She really did start to realize my feelings for her the second time I saw her...

What's sad is I wasn't overthinking things...

There's one good thing that came out of all this - things went almost EXACTLY as I had planned them too, aside from her telling me she knows how I feel and having to reject me without hurting me.

My plan, from the very start, was:

1. To get to know her a bit better and talk to her more.
2. To ask her out to coffee to get to know her better.
3. Once she said yes, we would have went out to coffee.
4. To agree on a second time to see each other.
5. My plan was to start to show her my feelings without being too direct. I wanted her to start thinking about if I have feelings for her or not. I wanted her to start watching my behavior in the future to figure out if I do have feelings for her or not. I also wanted her to start thinking about my qualities and traits and start to make a judgement on who I am and my character so that she could decide if I was possible boyfriend material. This all happened, and exactly how I thought it would.

The only thing that didn't go according to plan was her admitting that she knows how I feel an rejecting me now instead of later.

I'm not taking it too badly, though. I'm feeling better now, but still. I still love her...

And my idea is number 3 tbh.

I won't be able to just stop loving her. It's so strong.

Like I said I might be able to weaken my feelings to 10% at the most but it will never get any lower than that.

And as soon as I get the chance that 10% is going to jump to 10,000% and I will not stop to win her heart.

Or should I just go with number 5? Keep hanging out purely as friend for the next 2-3 months and see if things CAN progress naturally?

AngelRho, where are you to give me an entire novel of advice?

Did you say 2 months is the maximum, or 3?

I have only been speaking to her for about 1 month and 5 days, so I still have around 2 months of time to just keep seeing her a friend and let things progress naturally, if that's possible anymore/at this point?

So, she doesn't want to date you at the moment because she's looking to date other girls. I'm sorry but you can't do anything if the other person isn't interested. The good news is that she still sees you as a potential boyfriend if she becomes interested in dating guys again. However, my suggestion is don't wait for her but at the same time, don't break off the friendship just because she hasn't agreed to be your girlfriend either. For the time being, look for other girls to date and and potentially become your girlfriend. The good thing about remaining friends with this girl even while you're looking for other people as potential girlfriends is that she knows that you trouble with talking to girls and dating and she offered to give you advice on that if you ask her.