Creepiness

Post Reply New Topic

True. I realize that some women have had traumatic experiences with men in the past and this causes them to fear men. They have my sympathies.

Yeah, gender roles suck! I've gotten myself extremely depressed trying to live up unrealistic male standards - like a man should make $100K per year, not $55K, a man should become sexually active at 16, not 28, a man should have a flat stomach and bulging biceps. A man should have a skinny girlfriend.

Those standards made me miserable! Screw 'em and any men or women who perpetuate them. My salary of $55K per year is enough for me to live on, age is just a number, my slight pot belly and normal biceps are perfectly acceptable (no more skipping meals for me), I will no longer worry about what my friends think of my girlfriend (if she ever forgives me).

Not just gender roles but roles in general. Like if someone is a Tory voter, they agree with the new Tory policies without even thinking about them because they think it is their role as a Tory voter, to always agree with everything the Tory party says.True. I realize that some women have had traumatic experiences with men in the past and this causes them to fear men. They have my sympathy.

The thing that scares me about this situation is that it's unpredictable. I can't tell which woman has had a traumatic experience in the past, not just by looking at them. I can't tell how they will react. Unpredictable situations are dangerous.

Another unpredictable facet is that I can't predict how she will percieve me (as you've said). She may percieve me to be a threat even if I didn't percieve anything threatening in my behaviour. Her friends or the bouncer or the police hear her side of the story. Her perception of my behaviour, biased by her traumatic past experiences, now form part of the narative believed by her frindes or the bouncer or the police.

I have no animosity towards such women. I know they've been through terrible experiences and it's not their fault but for my own safety I stay far away from them. They have a lot of fear.

You seem like a very cool and understanding guy ; it sucks people have found you creepy for whatever reason.

As you say, you can't know if a woman has had a past experience that will make her perceive you as threatening. However, we should also acknowledge that a woman doesn't need to have been a victim of sexual assault etc. to be aware that it exists. I have not been through such trauma but in many cases I have been creeped out by guys because I've gotten a 'vibe', rightly or wrongly, that they posed a sexual threat.

If I can pick up on it with my HFA, then NT girls definitely can. Here are some examples of 'creepy' behaviour that the men may or may not have known was creepy, and which I took as potentially threatening:
-staring too long/closely
-awkward silences/long pauses before speaking
-guys who are too charming, like they've rehearsed it
-standing too closely or other dominant body language
-following me as I walk alone , this one has happened a few times and always feels rape-y
-compliments focused too much on physical attributes
-poor hygiene (greasiness especially)
-as I've said, anybody approaching me without knowing me makes me suspicious, because they have to be hitting on me based on my looks, and therefore they are already thinking sexually. Doesn't mean they're a threat (otherwise nobody would hook-up in bars etc.), but if I'm not expecting to be approached in that way it can be off-putting.

I get that avoiding some of these is going to be hard for ND guys; i.e. if conversation is difficult for you there's a higher chance you will either pause (and seem strange) or over-rehearse (and seem creepy). I think asking girls out is, like all social interactions, something NDs will always struggle with, but maybe the list will help you to work on avoidable errors that might come across as creepy?

More or less, yes.



Yes, it allows for observing the character of the other person before possibly going further.



My problem used to be more like yours. I'd stay in the observation phase for years, unable to move forward. I think I know why that happened: It was because the girl was too passive. Observation and game playing is supposed to be active, not passive.

I've also discovered that while typical guys will try to impress girls they don't know, I've never done that. The only time I've ever tried to impress a girl was when she did it first to me.

What jumps out at me here is this is exactly the reasoning on why women aren't 'direct' in their turning down of advances, or react to what they perceive as 'creepy', that you protest against and think unfair. Unpredictable situations are dangerous. You cannot tell if a woman has a traumatic past, or is even just vigilant, and nor can she tell if you mean well and are respectful or if you pose a threat. These are split-second, reflexive decisions, rather than conscious, considered judgements.

I've recently been re-reading Microserfs by Douglas Coupland. It's from 1995. Ever prescient, he wrote:

Which is why you shouldn't do it that way. If you must "ask out", you should at least know her in some way before doing it, so you actually know a little about her beforehand. This will also reduce rejections.

I would agree. Any relationship (or even date) I've had has been through a medium - penpal ads, phone (voice ad) dating, internet dating. The medium both puts up a buffer zone, and gives some indication of interest in itself. To move this to the offline world, I'd only approach someone in a setting that supplied a topic of conversation - friends-of-friends or lecture or concert or what have you. Not to say that I've been to such anytime recently, but that I would need something that allowed for a mutual interest that could be talked about if someone struck me as interesting and I wanted to know more, and in that context it would be about getting to know them to see if my initial interest was right and that I was attracted to them after all.

I plain don't get just seeing someone when out and about and going up to them and talking to them. It sounds an all-round nightmare.

Most dating sites seem really horrible. For instance, match.com will send you a long list of suggestions without knowing anything about your interests. I believe such "matches" will result in horrible things if pursued. OkC actually seems to be a bit better, but they also cannot match based on neurotype.

Newspaper ads back in the 80s was for losers only and didn't work well either.

In fact, every promising interaction with a girl I've had was "offline", without asking them out, or talking to them.

I used Plenty of Fish at first (awful aesthetics, but you could do a keyword list/search for interests), then OkCupid, which was at least gentler on the eye. I never paid attention to the matches. It took hour upon hour upon hour upon hour of going through profiles. Most held no interest. A few did, and there were a few women who messaged me. I wasn't looking based on neurotype, not least because I didn't have a diagnosis (nor even an inkling) that I was autistic. All the same, I knew I was weird, and just looked for similarly 'odd' women. That hasn't really changed. Got some dates and a relationship out of my efforts.

Never used newspaper ads. In the 1990s, there was a UK music magazine called 'Select'. Every issue had about 100 PO Box small ads for snail mail penpals/friends/relationships. Back when I was 17 I answered a few, and placed one. Had my first fall-in-love with one, and first girlfriend with another, and a fair few interesting back-and-forths with others. Just remembered I had my first date, too! She ignored me after, probably because I wasn't even aware it was a date til I replayed it on my way home, but still.

Wracking my brains, the only thing even approaching 'romance' (and then, we're talking approaching from a great distance, undercover, the shame of a restraining order seared into its soul) that came about in the 'real' world I can think of is my getting a crush on a girl in my Philosophy class at college. We would have been 16. Talked a bit in class, and had some nice conversations walking from the college through the park into the town. She dropped out of college after about a month ('family problems' was what her friend told me), and I was a bit thrown. It had just been nice to find someone who was easy to talk to; in that regard, it's actually probably set a template for later idea(l)s around friendships and relationships.

The parallel was intentional. It's not being turned down that bothers me. Being turned down is a normal part of the game.

Well how did they poster ask her out? Maybe it was in a way that came off as creepy....can't really tell without more detail.

Also sounds like internet trolls, they are glad if it pisses some people off, and I certainly have not seen a lot of people getting mocked for being single IRL, perhaps I just don't hang around people who do that.

Here is a "creepy" story.

As I was leaving a relative's place this evening (which happens to be in my neighborhood), I had stopped on the grass median next to the sidewalk and was fiddling with my new smart phone to turn the flashlight on. A couple walked by me, causing me to momentarily glance up, and when I did, I noticed the woman was staring me down in an unfriendly manner as they walked by. I ignored her and went back to my phone, but I could see in my peripheral vision that after they crossed a driveway a few feet in front of me, they turned and stopped, and the woman leaning against a retaining wall staring me down, and then began to take photos

I realize it's not illegal to take photos of individuals in public, and I typically don't have a problem with this, but it was a bit unsettling given that it was dark, and there were two of them, and one of me, and her seemingly hostile staring.

Yeah he did. Maybe it did come off as creepy but I got the impression that these guys thought the creepy part was that he dare ask her out in the first place.[/quote]Also sounds like internet trolls, they are glad if it pisses some people off[/quote]Not really. Trolls are usually sort of obvious. And these guys have made over 200 hour long episdoes spanning several years. Most of them I don't mind at all but in all of their episodes about dating we get this type of thing.

The thing is, they don't come accross as arogent alpha males. It's not like they're trying to save all the girls for themselves or anything. It's more like they come off as morally outraged. Like they think they're the morality brigade.

It's not religious morality or anything like that. They're not part of the Christian absticence only movement. They're totally secular. They just come off as very condescending and they seem to think everyone else in the world is stupid and that they're smart and perfectly moral. They think it's their mission to tell everyone what to do.

A troll is someone who intionally lies to shock people. These podcasters don't inteionally lie, they don't pretend to be morally superior, they genuinly believe that they are. They're unaware of the times they contradict themselves.

A troll is someone who tries to shock and offend people but these guys are different in that they act shocked and offended all the time. Everything offends them.

I don't think trolls specifically have to lie to shock people or irritate them a lot of those things sound like ways of trolling to me. Of course if they're actually morally outraged by things then perhaps they aren't trolls, but rather likely to become targets of them. In any event until I know how the person they were talking about asked the girl out....I won't know if it was creepy or not. Why would it be creepy for a guy to even dare asking a girl out, I suspect it was more in the way he did it.

Social Justice Warriors maybe? Not a term I really use but seems to describe these guys in this situation.

Got creeped out by a guy today who seemed to be using the above as a to-do list . Crazy rainstorm came out of nowhere so I went under a tree in the park. A guy went for the same tree and asked to share my umbrella - I said of course. We were stuck there for a full 20 minutes, during which time he stared at me with his mouth agape, repeated 'my GOD you are beautiful' aloud and under his breath, stood closer than he needed to, asked personal questions, smelled vaguely like a bottle-bank, and finished up with "three things: one. I want you. two. this... is not the place. three. how do you feel about me". The guy was in his 50s, dishevelled, initially told me he was married, said he had an "unsavoury" job ... were it not for his short, unhealthy demeanour I would have been a lot more threatened, but as it was I was pretty sure I could defend myself if necessary. That said there wasn't anyone else around so I was pretty on edge. At 20 minutes I said "I don't think the rain's stopping, I have an appointment' and I left the tree and got soaking wet despite my umbrella. He didn't follow me but he did say he "would think about me later" *shudder*. Now that is creepy .