Male disposability in life & dating

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Closet Genious
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15 Oct 2017, 5:51 am

Chronos wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SilverBoltsisWmax wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Anyway. Would one really get satisfaction from a life of working a low paid entry level job?

hurtloam wrote:
I don't think the answer is to separate ourselves more. We should be finding ways, men and women, to work together and find common ground and ways to get along with each other better.

I mean how can we become more respectful of each other. Obviously young men are feeling worthless and unloved. that's not good for society. We have a big problem. Being cold towards one another isn't the answer.

A "nice" job is often necessary to keep up with a girlfriend's or wife's demands. Big house, fancy car, engagement ring, jewelry for the anniversary, birthday presents, pricey Valentine's Day dinners, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention, high-paying jobs are often pretty stressful. If a man doesn't have anyone pushing all those demands and doesn't seek out romantic partners, a high-paid job becomes borderline unnecessary. A simple, low-stress job is just enough to maintain a man's lifestyle: a small but comfortable house, an inexpensive reliable car, and some extra cash for weekend outings.

I think we as a society already crossed the point of no return; the relationship between sexes at large is too damaged to repair in one generation's lifetime. Because my generation is basically out of luck, I'm choosing to keep a safe distance and watch the circus unfold. Just like Guy Montag in the closing scene of "Fahrenheit 451", where he watches his city get carpet-bombed, while standing in the safety of the countryside, talking to Book People.

Oh, and for the records, I have women friends who think highly of me. I just refuse to have anything to do with romantic or sexual relationships. In which case, I can't help but snicker at young men falling over themselves trying to find a sex partner or a girlfriend. Even though I was just like that 15 years ago.


Oh I don't doubt you guys are quite nice in real life. I used to work with a red pill guy and he's lovely.i really like him. I just feel that he must have been really hurt at some point to have had to delve into such a separatist ideology. I had to unfollow him on Facebook because I couldn't take the negativity of the things he liked.


The existence of women hurt men. Men who believe in the law of equivalent exchange are hurt by what women represent each day. The thing that makes men get upset is not that women control the power, it's that so many disregard the fact they do, as if they don't because they don't care or are actually that stupid.

Men see how other men who can easily sway women act, and cannot understand how women fall prey to this over and over, because logically it makes zero sense. But again....just goes back to people being generally stupid. I would go so far as to say, no woman should ever be unmarried past 25-30 unless by direct choice for a strong reason. Every woman who isn't and says it's because of men just isn't smart enough to understand her own power maybe even her own previous power, as women's power can be argued goes down with age as a rapid rate based off of choices, genetics etc.


I've existed in male dominated environments and have had male friends almost exclusively and have been rejected by every man I have asked out, and have never had a serious marriage proposal. So my 37 years of experience being female gives me a different perspective on the matter than your 24 years of being male.

I find that a lot of men who struggle socially have this idea that all women have all men in the palm of their hands, figuratively, and all men are so desperate that they would take any woman who showed interest in them, and that's really not the case. The average man has standards, just like the average woman. There are women the average man has no interest in dating, or may have an interest in dating, but no interest in marrying. I cannot just magically snap my fingers and make the man of my choice, or any man for that matter, marry me.


Yes this is very true. I'm in the same situation.

Men don't see what is really going on in women's lives. They just assume and we are meant to take their assumptions as fact.

In saying that I don't doubt their tales of meeting materialistic women and when they tell me of the horrible things women have said to them I believe them.

But they need to believe us women when we tell them we don't have a golden ticket either

It's funny how they say 'women can choose whoever they want and men have to dance for them.' But all my single female friends who constantly get overlooked for someone 'better' feel the same way, that men get to choose anyone they want and we have to constantly jump through hoops for the men. And even then we're never good enough and I know so many women who have just given up.

They are sick of have their self esteem crushed and they're sick of being treated like they're unappealing. They don't want their self worth to be measured by a man. And these are clever, down to earth, non-materialistic women. Not gold diggers or harpies.


I know you won't like this, but the reason I am always skeptical of this, is because the women I know who say they can't get a man, easily could, they just completely overlook the men who are willing to date them.


That is a game that both men and women play, and it comes down to the fact that most people do have standards, both men and women. When they say they can't find someone, they mean someone who meets certain standards. I've observed though, that a lot of young men who struggle socially, don't recognize that they also often have standards. For example, he might think he will take any girl who wants him, but when I probe deeper, I usually find that that's not the case at all and he excludes a large portion of the female population from his idea of girl/woman, with respect to both sex and relationships.

For example, someone like this girl might be ok...she's not a super model, not a conventional girl, and not very feminine, but not horrible either.

Image

But someone like this would not be...

Image

I wouldn't call her hideous. Maybe she's a nice lady. But she's old and severely overweight and I think most young guys who say they will take any woman would throw an exception when presented with this one.

As for me, there certainly are men I would not only not approach, but reject, such as pedophiles, violent men, men who don't bathe or brush their teeth, men who are too old for me, men who are racist, men who lead very unhealthy or dangerous lifestyles, men who are dishonest, and so on.

Closet Genious wrote:
The problem is that they want the men, that get plenty of female attention already.


And same with a lot of men who want women who get a lot of male attention already.


I agree that both genders have standards, but you are completely wrong about that last part.

Men don't care at all about other men being interested. Women care because it serves as proof of social status, also called social proofing. Men are not attracted to status.


Where did anyone say anything about men caring about other men being interested?

You said

Closet Genious wrote:
The problem is that they want the men, that get plenty of female attention already.


And I said the same situation exists for men, where a lot of them want women who get plenty of male attention already.


Okay, we can spend all day nit picking my posts, english is my third language.

Women get more attracted to men because they already get female attention.

A "hot" woman might get alot of male attention, and alot of males might want that woman, but not because of the male attention she gets. Men simply don't care about that.


Are you saying that when a woman see's a man getting a lot of attention from other women, that she wants him more?

It's possible but probably not for the reason you might think. It's not unusual for women to have some degree of wariness or fear of men and if she see's many other women interacting with him, she may be more likely to think he is "safe". She may also be more likely to think he has some desirable qualities. But only to a point. If he has a lot of women interacting with him, and he seems like he would be a good catch, but is single, she might start to wonder about him. In the two instances I have come across a situation like this, the first man turned out to be a pedophile and the second man turned out to be gay.


Him being safe is definitely part of it, the other part is that it will make women percieve him as having higher value.
I know all this, because when I go out with my sister and her friends, the way other women treat me is completely different than if I went out with my male friends. I know they probably either a) think I'm gay. or b) percieve me as being really popular with women.

All of this creates a feedback loop where the men who already get women, get even more women. This is why I love going out with females, because it makes other females treat me as if I'm higher value than I actually am. The difference is very noticeable to say the least.


I don't know that females think of it in terms of him having higher value. I think the safety issue comes into play a lot more here. A group of men can be very intimidating for a woman.


I disagree strongly, even if I just arrived at a party/bar with males, and then later on am by myself I get alot less attention, where as if I arrived with females it would be the opposite. It's not a safety issue if I am standing by myself.


If you are surrounded by females you arrived with, you are less intimidating than if you were with a group of males or standing by yourself.

Closet Genious wrote:
It doesn't suprise me one bit though that you want to go towards the explanation that sounds most positive. That's just always how it is. But what you need to realize is that these mechanisms play out subconsciously. Women don't think consciously "He's interacting with other females, therefore he must be high value", all she knows is that he seems more attractive. She doesn't know why, she simply feels that way.


I am merely a female telling you that I think you are incorrect in some of your speculations on how many females think. I may not be the most typical female in the world, and I was probably more cut out to be a male, with my hypothetical "male brain" but I have sisters who interact with me and confide in me as a female and I am still burdened with the same dangers females face, such as male aggression, hostilities, and sexual predation towards females and most men seem to greatly underestimate how those threats shape female behavior.


Look I am not underestimating that, I even feel that myself when I walk past groups of muslim migrants late at nigh by myself, I feel the very real danger that they could seriously injure me if they wanted to. I was also perfectly willing to concede that it was part of the equation.

But like I said, this is subconscious, it's not something women think. When a woman sees a man interacting with other females she simply feels that he might be a good mate, based on the fact that he is getting female attention(social proof that he has value). If she sees that other women value him, then she herself will percieve him as higher value too.



Outrider
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15 Oct 2017, 6:08 am

Please stop the long post chain and reply to each other as:

@Chronos blah blah blah

@ClosetGenius blah blah blah



XFilesGeek
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15 Oct 2017, 6:27 am

Quote:
Look I am not underestimating that, I even feel that myself when I walk past groups of muslim migrants late at nigh by myself, I feel the very real danger that they could seriously injure me if they wanted to. I was also perfectly willing to concede that it was part of the equation.

But like I said, this is subconscious, it's not something women think. When a woman sees a man interacting with other females she simply feels that he might be a good mate, based on the fact that he is getting female attention(social proof that he has value). If she sees that other women value him, then she herself will percieve him as higher value too.


Any actual evidence to back that up?


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hurtloam
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15 Oct 2017, 6:29 am

Outrider wrote:
Please stop the long post chain and reply to each other as:

@Chronos blah blah blah

@ClosetGenius blah blah blah


Yes. I'm viewing this on mobile and the first 2 threads quoted are just a column of letters now lol.



The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Oct 2017, 6:30 am

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Are you saying that when a woman see's a man getting a lot of attention from other women, that she wants him more?



Yes, yes it's the case, this phenomena exists among females in other animals too.

And in your species as well...

http://www.prweb.com/releases/matepoach ... 744454.htm



SilverBoltsisWmax
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15 Oct 2017, 7:31 am

Chronos wrote:
SilverBoltsisWmax wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Anyway. Would one really get satisfaction from a life of working a low paid entry level job?

hurtloam wrote:
I don't think the answer is to separate ourselves more. We should be finding ways, men and women, to work together and find common ground and ways to get along with each other better.

I mean how can we become more respectful of each other. Obviously young men are feeling worthless and unloved. that's not good for society. We have a big problem. Being cold towards one another isn't the answer.

A "nice" job is often necessary to keep up with a girlfriend's or wife's demands. Big house, fancy car, engagement ring, jewelry for the anniversary, birthday presents, pricey Valentine's Day dinners, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention, high-paying jobs are often pretty stressful. If a man doesn't have anyone pushing all those demands and doesn't seek out romantic partners, a high-paid job becomes borderline unnecessary. A simple, low-stress job is just enough to maintain a man's lifestyle: a small but comfortable house, an inexpensive reliable car, and some extra cash for weekend outings.

I think we as a society already crossed the point of no return; the relationship between sexes at large is too damaged to repair in one generation's lifetime. Because my generation is basically out of luck, I'm choosing to keep a safe distance and watch the circus unfold. Just like Guy Montag in the closing scene of "Fahrenheit 451", where he watches his city get carpet-bombed, while standing in the safety of the countryside, talking to Book People.

Oh, and for the records, I have women friends who think highly of me. I just refuse to have anything to do with romantic or sexual relationships. In which case, I can't help but snicker at young men falling over themselves trying to find a sex partner or a girlfriend. Even though I was just like that 15 years ago.


Oh I don't doubt you guys are quite nice in real life. I used to work with a red pill guy and he's lovely.i really like him. I just feel that he must have been really hurt at some point to have had to delve into such a separatist ideology. I had to unfollow him on Facebook because I couldn't take the negativity of the things he liked.


The existence of women hurt men. Men who believe in the law of equivalent exchange are hurt by what women represent each day. The thing that makes men get upset is not that women control the power, it's that so many disregard the fact they do, as if they don't because they don't care or are actually that stupid.

Men see how other men who can easily sway women act, and cannot understand how women fall prey to this over and over, because logically it makes zero sense. But again....just goes back to people being generally stupid. I would go so far as to say, no woman should ever be unmarried past 25-30 unless by direct choice for a strong reason. Every woman who isn't and says it's because of men just isn't smart enough to understand her own power maybe even her own previous power, as women's power can be argued goes down with age as a rapid rate based off of choices, genetics etc.


I've existed in male dominated environments and have had male friends almost exclusively and have been rejected by every man I have asked out, and have never had a serious marriage proposal. So my 37 years of experience being female gives me a different perspective on the matter than your 24 years of being male.

I find that a lot of men who struggle socially have this idea that all women have all men in the palm of their hands, figuratively, and all men are so desperate that they would take any woman who showed interest in them, and that's really not the case. The average man has standards, just like the average woman. There are women the average man has no interest in dating, or may have an interest in dating, but no interest in marrying. I cannot just magically snap my fingers and make the man of my choice, or any man for that matter, marry me.


There is always the case for an odd bird. But two things affect this, one being overweight, two asking guys who already have tons of control over how women view therefore they can be extremely picky. I have to say I find it hard to believe you actually have always failed with non self aware guys.



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15 Oct 2017, 7:55 am

Quote:


Yes, yes it's the case, this phenomena exists among females in other animals too.

And in your species as well...

http://www.prweb.com/releases/matepoach ... 744454.htm
Quote:
Psychology studies have shown that some women may try to lure a man away from his current partner, a phenomenon known as "mate poaching." But a new study shows that most single women actually prefer men who are already in a committed relationship.


Quote:
"This may be because a man who is attached has already shown his ability to commit and, in a sense, has been pre-screened by another woman."




If that's the reason for their preference their reason is stupid, because if they actually get the man even though he has a girlfriend that only shows that he's not all that able to commit.



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15 Oct 2017, 7:57 am

Ugh. That's the main issue. The idea you are special. This is why redrill exists to help men. Women as a result of biological reasons and society pampering them in ways causes them to never be self aware or grow.

How women view attractive men on average is a joke. It can be easily controlled. You want a top tier man k. Build him it's not hard but women want a finished project that is out a their control.

Remember pikemon? The sooner level 50 trainers stop trying to have level 80- 100 charizards the better.

Oh and this may sound biased but men can go to level 150 while women stop at 100. This is due to how the world works.



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15 Oct 2017, 9:25 am

NorthWind wrote:
Quote:


Yes, yes it's the case, this phenomena exists among females in other animals too.

And in your species as well...

http://www.prweb.com/releases/matepoach ... 744454.htm
Quote:
Psychology studies have shown that some women may try to lure a man away from his current partner, a phenomenon known as "mate poaching." But a new study shows that most single women actually prefer men who are already in a committed relationship.


Quote:
"This may be because a man who is attached has already shown his ability to commit and, in a sense, has been pre-screened by another woman."




If that's the reason for their preference their reason is stupid, because if they actually get the man even though he has a girlfriend that only shows that he's not all that able to commit.


Are you trying to use logic to explain their behavior? It's futile.
Your brain is probably 'male' then lol.

Btw this is something a lot of us men notice and experience in our lives.
Especially when comparing the female attention we're getting in our single life vs recent relationship life.
Actually, it's very noticeable that when a girl is sexually attracted to me (aka finds me very attractive) - she always assumes I am a "Playboy".

Hell, even my current gf assumed so.



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15 Oct 2017, 9:29 am

:lol:

Image



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15 Oct 2017, 11:06 am

Outrider wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Meh...I don’t really have a problem with being “disposable.” This life has done me few favors other than my wife and kids, who are all I’m really living for, anyway, and I kinda get excited over the idea of Death paying me a visit. No, I’m not in a HURRY to die, but I’m not exactly running from it, either.

Men are men. We don’t carry new human life inside us, we’re not exactly virtuous in all the best ways, we’re not very pretty. Our value is in what we DO, our ability to care for each other and those we love. Women’s value IS in their beauty—when a woman dies, the world loses some of its beauty. The nurturing attributes of mothers and big sisters. They get angry with us because we tend to want to fix things rather than validate, while women are often all validation. They just listen better than men do. I like how women are just naturally more creative and artistic than men tend to be, how there just seems to be more heart in what women do. How women really are smarter than men (think about it!).

I’m not a male feminist by any stretch, and I don’t care who thinks I objectify women. Women fascinate me. I think if one sex deserves more of the world it’s women.

Another way of looking at our disposability, a little less sentimental:

I really don’t care if someone thinks I’m disposable. I don’t want anyone to be that dependent on me. I don’t want to have to answer to anyone. If a girl can throw me away that easily, I don’t need her.


You are a perfect example of how the unconscious programming manifests itself. Everything you've written here is just complete nonsense..

I guess you don't think Mozart, Shakespeare and Picasso were all that creative or artistic, or that Einstein, Tesla and Newton were all that smart.

I have no earthly idea how you have arrived at these conclusions, all the greatest things ever created throughout human history, have been creations of men. Why do show so little regard for your fellow men?
Men ARE smarter, more creative, more artistic than women, that's simply a fact. Many men have sacrificed their lives to save others, how dare you say men have less heart in what they do.

I guess in your view, spending time on taking instagram pictures, putting on makeup and going out shopping is the essence of virtue...


I've met plenty of men who were dumber and less creative than me.


But almost every.notable philosopher, scientist, doctor, engineer, inventor, mathematician, designer, etc. In history were men.

Average man and woman have equal.IQs but men simply it out more geniuses.

And don't try to argue "women were oppressed they couldn't become scientists or doctors" thats changed today and there's still not many amazing female scientists, inve tors, philosopher etc.

All i can think of is a woman is leading in robotic sciences, who's name I can't remember.

And Ayn Rand, one of the most well known female philosophers/political critiques published her works long before feminism gave women the opportunity to start being top scientists, inventors, philosophers, etc.

All major innovations in human histpry have been by Men.

What Closet Genius failed to mention is men are also ultimately more predisposed war and violence in The world, but I don't always see our violent nature as a problem and it does have some benefits. It was natural since our ancestors fought with other tribes and hunted animals so.men degepopes more tendencies toward violence. Violence when used to protect and defend is not wrong.


Umm in a lot of places throughout history, women wouldn't have been allowed the opportunity to become those things...so that is actually why historically most notable scientists, doctors, inventors, artists ect were males. Women have largely been seen as baby makers to be kept inside throughout history. so that is not a very good argument.


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15 Oct 2017, 12:02 pm

Where are all the successful female scientists, engineers, doctors etc. Today since women in many countries now have more freedom and opportunity?

Ayn Rand, the only example I can think of right now released her philosophical/political books before women had equal rights.

Read my post agai . I already said this but loks like I have to repeat it again.

Where are they?

Name 5 notable female doctors, scientists. Inventors, philosophers, etc. In the last 100 years.

I can only think of two, Ayn Rand and one who's name I forgot, she is the leading sciescientist robotics research in Japan I think.



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15 Oct 2017, 12:07 pm

Outrider wrote:
Where are all the successful female scientists, engineers, doctors etc. Today since women in many countries now have more freedom and opportunity?

Ayn Rand, the only example I can think of right now released her philosophical/political books before women had equal rights.

Read my post agai . I already said this but loks like I have to repeat it again.

Where are they?

Name 5 notable female doctors, scientists. Inventors, philosophers, etc. In the last 100 years.

I can only think of two, Ayn Rand and one who's name I forgot, she is the leading sciescientist robotics research in Japan I think.


Because these things take time, lol you honestly think after thousands of years of history, women gaining more freedom and opportunities is going to result in just as many well known female inventors/artists/scientists and such coming into existence within 100 years? Not to mention just because this freedom/oppurtunities have been granted in the past 100 years doesn't mean all the old attitudes and mentalities just instantly went away and everyone started encouraging women to pursue these more stereotypical 'male' professions.


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15 Oct 2017, 12:30 pm

Outrider wrote:

Name 5 notable female doctors, scientists. Inventors, philosophers, etc. In the last 100 years.
.


Last 100 years, so Lise Meitner still counts. Someone she worked together with won a Nobel price. I don't think she did but he thought she should have got one too for their combined work.
Rosalind Franklin (worked together with Watson and Crick - DNA double helix)
More recently, I don't know her name but the CRISPR gene editing method, which might be the most important gene editing method today, was developed by a woman.

There are more, but I don't know a lot about famous people.
You're right that there are more important male scientists also recently but not right that important female scientists are almost non-existant.



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15 Oct 2017, 7:31 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SilverBoltsisWmax wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Anyway. Would one really get satisfaction from a life of working a low paid entry level job?

hurtloam wrote:
I don't think the answer is to separate ourselves more. We should be finding ways, men and women, to work together and find common ground and ways to get along with each other better.

I mean how can we become more respectful of each other. Obviously young men are feeling worthless and unloved. that's not good for society. We have a big problem. Being cold towards one another isn't the answer.

A "nice" job is often necessary to keep up with a girlfriend's or wife's demands. Big house, fancy car, engagement ring, jewelry for the anniversary, birthday presents, pricey Valentine's Day dinners, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention, high-paying jobs are often pretty stressful. If a man doesn't have anyone pushing all those demands and doesn't seek out romantic partners, a high-paid job becomes borderline unnecessary. A simple, low-stress job is just enough to maintain a man's lifestyle: a small but comfortable house, an inexpensive reliable car, and some extra cash for weekend outings.

I think we as a society already crossed the point of no return; the relationship between sexes at large is too damaged to repair in one generation's lifetime. Because my generation is basically out of luck, I'm choosing to keep a safe distance and watch the circus unfold. Just like Guy Montag in the closing scene of "Fahrenheit 451", where he watches his city get carpet-bombed, while standing in the safety of the countryside, talking to Book People.

Oh, and for the records, I have women friends who think highly of me. I just refuse to have anything to do with romantic or sexual relationships. In which case, I can't help but snicker at young men falling over themselves trying to find a sex partner or a girlfriend. Even though I was just like that 15 years ago.


Oh I don't doubt you guys are quite nice in real life. I used to work with a red pill guy and he's lovely.i really like him. I just feel that he must have been really hurt at some point to have had to delve into such a separatist ideology. I had to unfollow him on Facebook because I couldn't take the negativity of the things he liked.


The existence of women hurt men. Men who believe in the law of equivalent exchange are hurt by what women represent each day. The thing that makes men get upset is not that women control the power, it's that so many disregard the fact they do, as if they don't because they don't care or are actually that stupid.

Men see how other men who can easily sway women act, and cannot understand how women fall prey to this over and over, because logically it makes zero sense. But again....just goes back to people being generally stupid. I would go so far as to say, no woman should ever be unmarried past 25-30 unless by direct choice for a strong reason. Every woman who isn't and says it's because of men just isn't smart enough to understand her own power maybe even her own previous power, as women's power can be argued goes down with age as a rapid rate based off of choices, genetics etc.


I've existed in male dominated environments and have had male friends almost exclusively and have been rejected by every man I have asked out, and have never had a serious marriage proposal. So my 37 years of experience being female gives me a different perspective on the matter than your 24 years of being male.

I find that a lot of men who struggle socially have this idea that all women have all men in the palm of their hands, figuratively, and all men are so desperate that they would take any woman who showed interest in them, and that's really not the case. The average man has standards, just like the average woman. There are women the average man has no interest in dating, or may have an interest in dating, but no interest in marrying. I cannot just magically snap my fingers and make the man of my choice, or any man for that matter, marry me.


Yes this is very true. I'm in the same situation.

Men don't see what is really going on in women's lives. They just assume and we are meant to take their assumptions as fact.

In saying that I don't doubt their tales of meeting materialistic women and when they tell me of the horrible things women have said to them I believe them.

But they need to believe us women when we tell them we don't have a golden ticket either

It's funny how they say 'women can choose whoever they want and men have to dance for them.' But all my single female friends who constantly get overlooked for someone 'better' feel the same way, that men get to choose anyone they want and we have to constantly jump through hoops for the men. And even then we're never good enough and I know so many women who have just given up.

They are sick of have their self esteem crushed and they're sick of being treated like they're unappealing. They don't want their self worth to be measured by a man. And these are clever, down to earth, non-materialistic women. Not gold diggers or harpies.

Would your friends dat a non college educated man working part time at min wage? If not it’s their standards that keep them single not that menarent interested in them. I here so many women b***h about being single and how no men will date them or how there’s no men or where are all the men, but they won’t date men like me. So I don’t have pity for them anymore then I would someone who says they dehydrated and going die while I’m offering them water cause they won’t drink water and only want soda.
I’m single cause women reject me left and right not because I don’t deem half the female population good enough to date me.



Chronos
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15 Oct 2017, 9:15 pm

Outrider wrote:
Where are all the successful female scientists, engineers, doctors etc. Today since women in many countries now have more freedom and opportunity?

Ayn Rand, the only example I can think of right now released her philosophical/political books before women had equal rights.

Read my post agai . I already said this but loks like I have to repeat it again.

Where are they?

Name 5 notable female doctors, scientists. Inventors, philosophers, etc. In the last 100 years.

I can only think of two, Ayn Rand and one who's name I forgot, she is the leading sciescientist robotics research in Japan I think.


Your lack of knowledge on the subject does not equate to lack of existence...believe it or not, a large number of people in Japan think that only Japan has four seasons.

1. Emmy Noether. It's often said that Hilbert was the only person to know all of math, and Einstein was the god of physics, but there was one person who Einstein and Hilbert turned to when they needed help, and that was Emmy Noether. Einstein was able to start his theory of relativity but not able to complete, nor was Hilbert or any of the other male physicists and mathematicians of the time. It was Emmy Noether who made sense of it and completed it. To underscore the importance of this, consider that Einstein is famous for his E=mc^2 equation, but he didn't start the derivation. Others did. What Einstein did was finish the derivation and made it something understandable became famous for it, but despite the fact that Noether did the same thing with Einstein's theory of relativity, you still have never heard of her or understand her importance. That's not really your fault though. Noether would likely be as well known today as Einstein and Hilbert, Newton and so on, if not for the fact that she was female. Being female, she was unable to study at any universities in Germany...the seat of science at the time, but was permitted to sit in on courses which she was not permitted to receive credit for. Being female, she was also not permitted to teach in any official capacity at universities in Germany, and thus did was not able to obtain the authority and recognition that comes with professorship that Einstein and others did, but she was eventually permitted to do so on a volunteer basis with the help of extremely persistent advocacy from Hilbert, Einstein and others who recognized her talents as equal to or exceeding their own.

2. Lisa Randall. Randall is a leading expert in cosmology at Harvard University.

3. Grace Hopper
Grace Hopper was a pioneer in computer science and creator of one of the first programming languages, FLOW-MATIC. She is an extremely influential figure in computer sciences and her ideas inspired the programming language COBOL, which is still used today in banking.

4. Marie Curie. First woman to win a Nobel Prize, and two time Nobel Prize winner for her contributions to the field of science in radioactive physics with her theory of radioactivity. Coiner of the term "radioactivity", discoverer of the elements polonium and radium, and first to apply radiation to the treatment of cancer.

5. Rosalind Franklin. Rosalind Franklin had been using x-ray crystalography to study the structure of DNA, and while James Watson, Francis Crick, who worked in a different lab at the same institution, King's College, were given credit for discovering that the structure of DNA was a helix, and awarded the Nobel Prize for it, it's widely believed that they came to this conclusion after one of them got a peak at Franklin's lab journal. This view has been strengthened by the fact that Watson eventually went on to express that ideally, Franklin should have been awarded the prize as well. Unfortunately Franklin died at the age of 37 from ovarian cancer and the Nobel Prize committee does not award the honor posthumously. Her friend Anne Sayre wrote a book detailing the sexism that Franklin and other women faced at King's College.

6. Hedy Lamarr. Hedy Lamarr was not a scientist. She was a silver screen actress from the golden era of Hollywood. But that didn't stop her from inventing Frequency-hopping spread spectrum missile guidance systems to torpedo the crap out of nazis. Lamarr's contributions are used heavily in modern warfare and communications today. She also worked on many other inventions.

7. Chien-Shiung Wu. Wu is known for her contributions to the Manhattan Project, where she helped develop the process of seperating uranium metal into uranium-235 and uranium-238 isotopes by gaseous diffusion, and also for the "Wu Experiment" which contradicted the hypothetical law of conservation of parity, which won two of her colleagues the Novel Prize. The reason that Wu was not awarded the prize is largely lost to what has been called the politics and complexities of how the Nobel Prize is awarded, and the actual reason is debatable and one we will never really know, but she was recognized in other ways with various other awards.

I am going to stop listing them independently and stop here due to time constraints, but you can find a list of female Nobel Prize winners here. You will see that many women win them in the biological sciences and medicine.

Speaking of medicine, at one of the largest health care providers in southern California, UCLA, 1284 of the 2692 doctors are female, roughly 48% and I would say they are rather successful as that institution pays very their physicians very well. 34% of the doctors in the U.S. are female.

A word on notariety and Nobel Prizes: While most who get their names mentioned in text books, are household names, and who have awarded Nobel Prizes have done great things, not everyone who does great things gets such recognition for it, and not everyone who gets recognition for it has actually done a great thing. The foundation of all technological breakthroughs are the contributions of countless people who work long hours and who have dedicated their lives to sometimes, obscure fields, who never get credit for their work. It's very common that when a research lab makes a breakthrough, the bulk of the credit goes to the "principal investigator" who is the professor who's lab it is, and not the people who actually did the work. Women have historically been disproportionately affected by this because though they once dominated lab populations as both technicians and scientists, they were blocked from holding professorships and holding director and thus could not have labs of their own, and their contributions were taken for granted or not recognized for their value.

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This may have seemed like a long time ago to you, but with respect to how fast perceptions actually change, it really isn't, and despite advances in equality of women in science, we still have to deal with perceptions such as yours, that ignore our contributions to the field, as well as ongoing sexism that blocks us from receiving full credit for our merit. In the past 4 years I've experience two incidents of sexism. One in where a man only addressed my male associate while ignoring me, and another where two young men where completely disregarding my input, experience, and expertise, with disastrous results. And that's only the past 4 years. One should not have to content with the constant devaluing that women in STEM are often subjected to, but it's an unfortunate fact of our world that it happens.

To illustrate this, consider the idea that few women go into STEM. This is not true. Few women go into EM. Engineering and Mathematics. As for ST, science and technology, that includes biological sciences, life sciences, chemistry, pharmacology and medicine, and women are 50% of even dominate some of those fields and much of the research churned out in those fields is done by women, but people are either unaware of that or ignore it when talking about STEM as if those women don't count.