Physical attractiveness — a rant

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I can't prove it, but I don't think my autism has ever been a barrier in my relationships , my comorbids however like social anxiety , depression etc have not helped at the initial stages.

^ Yeah, I can relate to that. Social anxiety has always been a problem for me when it comes to dating.

There are a lot more NTs than Autistic people. NT Men are more likely willing to give an Autistic woman a chance. NT women are unlikely to give an Autistic man a chance. Autistic men only option would be to date an Autistic women or not bother with dating.

Actually, many autistic men on here have NT partners.

Pretty sure most of my partners were NT (found out one partner was autistic years later).

I have wanted to follow up on this. I re-read the whole thread and I honestly think there was some really good discussion buried in there. Nobody should feel obligated to agree or feel disrespected because they don't agree, but quite a few people did acknowledge the importance of physical attractiveness in Love and Dating.

So when I was 19 I was in a situation in which, without going into any detail, I was alone in a bedroom with a woman my age I'd just met, and she informed me that she wasn't physically attracted to me, but strongly suggested that if she were, she would have had sex with me right then. However she also explained that for her, physical attractiveness was not a matter of appearance so much as one of attitude i.e. the guy needed to have a certain level of confidence, and if he did, he was getting laid even though she'd just met him. I am not recalling this out of a desire for sympathy and I'll admit that perhaps this woman was atypical of college age women of the early 70s (although in fact I don't think it was unusual at the time). Another thing I'll mention is that she then informed me she'd get home by hitchhiking (at night) which was for her was apparently a routine way to get around the Boston area. Again I don't know how typical this was but it's consistent with what I can recall about living in the 1970s. I am sorry that this story will upset some people but it's how I remember it.

Anyway, my point is that when I introduced the topic of physical attractiveness, some people seemed to interpret that to mean beauty for example a woman reported that a man she would consider handsome raped her, which is horrible, although I don't know what to say about that to make her feel better, but it is entirely off topic. This is not a thread about beauty or handsomeness. It is quite simply about any set of personal attributes that might cause somebody to be desired physically (i.e. sexually) or not, and an assertion that some people, for whatever reason, have more of those characteristics than others (let's not quibble over the patently obvious fact that different things attract different people yeah I'm 70 years old, I've learned that by now). And the purpose of the rant is to say that I think we should acknowledge that when having these discussions. One hypothetical male respondent is approaching age 40 and has never had a date. Another reports having been sexually active since age 16. Why did those two have such different experiences? Should the second one hang their head in shame because they may have had sex with partners they didn't intend to marry?

The other thing, which I suppose I should regret, was the last point I tried to make in my OP. I said:

I shouldn't have stated it that way and I apologize to anybody that may have triggered. I'll try to state it in a somewhat different way, which is that an expectation of good sex will make a partner more desirable. It's clearly true no matter what genders are involved. I'm sorry if I stated it from a cishet male's (i.e. my own) point of view, but I still insist the logic is sound. I think we should all admit that when people date they have sex, and they don't always stay with the people they have sex with, and sometimes they (any gender) undertake dating with the expectation of sex. Furthermore if they enjoy the sex, they'll want more of it. I see women on Slate say all the time that they have relationship problems but the sex is mind-blowing, and what should they do?

At no point though did I suggest that vulnerable women or women on WP should "offer sex" as a way to get dates. I really don't see how that follows from what I said that was quoted above (which I admittedly shouldn't have said but nonetheless I did). OTOH if a woman invites a guy over and answers the door wearing a negligée, that's entirely her business. Most women wouldn't but some in fact would, but again that wasn't my intention.

What led to that statement was an experience I had dating a young woman to whom I wasn't originally attracted (I didn't necessarily think her unattractive, she just wasn't someone I would have otherwise asked out). I went into some more detail earlier in the thread about that relationship. I'm sorry but for a guy it's really nice to know that a women finds you physically attractive and tells you so outright (why should it be better for the man's sake or the woman's for her to be coy?). Anyway I did get to into some detail and if you re-read the thread you can see I tried to tell that story as best I can remember. She never offered me sex as a way to get a date. She did publicly initiate enthusiastic snogging on what I believe was my 2nd date with her, which at first embarrassed me a bit but it was clearly something she wanted to do. I also did that with her in her apartment, nevertheless she and I didn't formally start dating until about 2 years after we first met, meanwhile she had dated someone else for a year. It wasn't until then that she and I actually got naked, and it was entirely at her pace. In fact, she was in the driver's seat throughout that entire relationship. At no time could I have been accused of taking advantage of her in any way. At the end it was she who admitted her main interest in me was physical but she could have probably gotten me to the altar had her feelings towards me been stronger. Nevertheless I'll admit that her obvious physical attraction to me did make her more attractive to me. When she and I were officially dating, I had a wallet portrait of her and even took it out and showed it to people to let them know who I was dating. Normal stuff.

OK now I've said too much but I have also confessed I said something at the beginning of the thread I shouldn't, but I wanted to at least provide some background as to what I had in mind when I wrote that. Many of us on WP don't have brilliant communication skills and I am one of them.

I've only read your first para, and I can't read the rest right now, but I agree that physical attractiveness is more than appearance. It's whether or not we are "attracted" to a person's physical existence on Earth, period, as opposed to their personality. Physical existence includes their vibe in terms of how they present or carry themselves regardless of their looks, or even online when we don't see the person, and it includes their psychic energy. Energy emits from our physical selves when we meet people in person, to some extent when we see them on TV / computer, and not just from our actions or our mindset. It's an energy discernible like an aura. All of this counts imo.

*This does not mean I would "lay" the person, but each to their own.

I'll read the rest later.

What makes you say this?
I prefer autistic men.
Like likes Like.

I wouldn't want to be with someone NT and confident and social.
That sounds like hell.

I like quirky introverts and social misfits like myself.

^


My son is ASD and OCD, and very particular. His longterm GF is NT.
They connect because they're both brilliant and talented.

My brother is ASD and his partner is extremely extroverted NT.

My ASD male friend is married to an NT woman.
They have three kids.

Of course there's such a thing as physical attractiveness, however that is defined, and it's subjective. Not all people like the same look. Not all people are as influenced by physical attraction as others. Not all "attractive" people want to have relationships or have sex with everyone they meet, and not all "unattractive" people are virgins.

I know that part of this is the point you're trying to make, but regarding the two hypothetical men in your comment, you seem to be suggesting one of them might have that "physical attractiveness thing" (however it's defined), and the other might not. Are you saying that's the reason one has never had a date and the other has been sexually active for 24 years?

Do personality or compatibility and "treating their partner nicely" count as factors for why some people end up getting sexual relationships and some don't? What about the fact one of them might have had opportunities to meet more potential partners, or maybe they just happened to meet more of the "right" people than the other. That's luck of the draw. I know you're trying to speak only about physical attraction but there could be many more factors influencing your hypothetical scenario.

No one needs to hang their head in shame about a lack of sex. Hang your head in shame if you're a jackass, yes! Hang your head in shame if you are abusive to people or if you blame people for not dating you, yes! Hang your head in shame because you're a virgin? Never. I can understand being sad or frustrated, but it's not shameful because it's likely not personal.





Yes.

In most cases it's not the only reason people date, or the the main thing they'll want from their partner, but it's one factor for many people, and to say it isn't would be false.







*clears throat*

That's where we are. The relationship was amazing and is still really great, but some problems are happening that are beyond our control. We're trying to work through them because our relationship is more important than sex for both of us. Sex is still mind-blowing. What should I do? I think we're doing the right thing by getting appropriate professional support and working on ourselves as well as the relationship. We try to avoid the mind-blowing sex because it might end up hurting us both if we can't sort out the relationship stuff, and we don't want to hurt each other. That doesn't mean we don't cave sometimes. We're only human lol.


What is Slate? I have no idea.





My guy likes me in mittens. Go figure.




I think you're worried that everyone is upset at you for the comment. It wasn't that big of a deal or that far out in left field for people to be offended for a long time about it. I don't think you were suggesting that men should shag ugly women just for sport. I wasn't sure what you meant to be honest and the comment seemed kind of strange, but that's OK. We all have trouble expressing things sometimes, and when it's about sex that only makes it more complicated.

I guess it's equivalent to me saying (hypothetically) that I met some guy I wasn't really attracted to at first, but he showed interest in me and I got to know him well enough to like him regardless of how he looked. That's actually how it's supposed to work, if that's what you meant.

It's not "entirely off topic." My point is that physical attributes are less important to me and to many people because someone who is good-looking isn't necessarily a good person. Personality is much more important. Being attractive doesn't mean that one will be a good person or a good lover.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 13 Aug 2023, 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

In your initial post, you said:

That is truly appalling. Hopefully, no one would want to retain such a person by any means but especially not through sex. I disagree with your stance here anyway. I think that certain people are more likely to have sex with those they find attractive but not form relationships with them if they learn that there's something lacking in the personality department.

In your follow up post, you seem to be making universal statements based on a couple experiences you've had or things you've read on Slate. Dating and romance are much more complex than that and everyone is different.

What's important to you may not be important to all, or perhaps, most people.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 13 Aug 2023, 8:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

It's impossible to determine the cause without knowing them offline. Most of the time.

Sometimes luck can be a factor. Being in the right place at the right time to meet someone mutually compatible for dating purposes and who is also available at that time/wanting to date.

Sometimes one person is an a**hole and the other is not. There are LOTS of possibilities.

True if you make a conscious decision to be celibate for some reason. But if you are truly looking for relationships and sex, and are unable to find them, it is mostly likely due to some personal factor. There is something about you that is not leading to the outcome you want.