The TRUE definition of Alpha Males

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MountZion
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09 Sep 2009, 12:43 pm

I have often seen the name of the Alpha Male besmerched a lot, and it is quite funny, as I have a completely different view on Alpha males altogether. (not from the wolf point of view, but the human one)

I see many being referred to as assholes and aggressive dominant characters, when actually, the Alpha is often a lot nicer than you think. I think everyone knows or has known/met an Alpha.

He is the guy that most people like, boys and girls alike. He has influence over people because he is self-confident, and kind-hearted, generous and wise. An angry Beta male who tells people he is an Alpha male, or wants people to think he is, asserts himself by force, and dominance, rather than compassion, intelligence, and strength beyond means. Those are who people are really talking about when they say "Alpha male-assholes".

Alpha Males do not need to be aggressive, and in fact are often the most passive, simply because they are sure of themselves and their surroundings. They are a man in every true sense. And they do not revel in being smarter than anyone, rather they surround themselves with people who are just as clever, or indeed people who are just as clever.


Now the angry Betas, who pose as Alpha Males, are assholes (sometimes). They are just as insecure as the many other men who aren't.

I think a lot of men who are like us (whether they have AS or not) have the potential to at least be a Gamma Male (I'll get into that one later :lol:) and also elevate to being an Alpha Male. It can be done if we can fine tune our own being to our strengths while ironing out our weaknesses.

Just my opinion, but I don't think it is right when a lot of good men get lambasted for things they haven't even done or aren't at fault for.



Tim_Tex
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09 Sep 2009, 12:46 pm

I agree about the part where we can elevate ourselves to Alpha status.

In all honesty, I don't use the Greek letter system, but I do the best job I can in terms of communicating.


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MountZion
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09 Sep 2009, 1:01 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I agree about the part where we can elevate ourselves to Alpha status.

In all honesty, I don't use the Greek letter system, but I do the best job I can in terms of communicating.


Agreed, although I think some people are born to play their part, there are some who are simply special, like a blank card, can be molded into whatever it wants. That's where good parenting comes in also. I think that boys/men with AS can do this, although with much work, and much courage involved.



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09 Sep 2009, 1:22 pm

I think the biggest problem for us in achieving alpha-male status is gathering followers. Our bad people skills makes that very difficult. Being cool & confident alone isn't enough. Other people must recognize your status.



MountZion
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09 Sep 2009, 1:32 pm

deadeyexx wrote:
I think the biggest problem for us in achieving alpha-male status is gathering followers. Our bad people skills makes that very difficult. Being cool & confident alone isn't enough. Other people must recognize your status.


I can understand everything you say here. It is very difficult for us in that respect, especially if you throw in the anxiety that many seem to suffer from. I think the bolded is important, because that sentence can be interpreted in many ways. The way I see it, other people recognizing your status is a secondary goal. Primary should be your own being.



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09 Sep 2009, 1:34 pm

MountZion wrote:
Agreed, although I think some people are born to play their part, there are some who are simply special, like a blank card, can be molded into whatever it wants. That's where good parenting comes in also. I think that boys/men with AS can do this, although with much work, and much courage involved.

By the way, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the Alpha Male. Consistent with your Alpha Male description, I think of alpha males as being great defenders as opposed to attackers. Anybody can pick a fight with a weaker person, but this isn't a genuine sign of strength... it's like NT guys who try to throw their masculinity around to make women think they're all tough, but it's just a show. What's a true sign of strength is that you're willing to stand up and defend yourself and others instead of running away.

I think AS guys are born to play the part, but indeed a lot of courage and emotional support are required during childhood to allow the young AS guys to be willing to try new stuff and learn and grow without continually retreating into their shell as so many of us often do. We would get the people skills and followers that way, by learning to understand people and how they work without automatically going into some kind of victim mentality, which many AS folks again do.


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DylanMcKay
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09 Sep 2009, 1:46 pm

This is a very good post, MountZion, and I am somewhat torn about it. I can't say I really agree with your overall theory but in some cases it's probably true.

As someone who has firsthand experience with an alpha parent being overly controlling and overbearing and bullying on me and crowding me out/contradicting me or disagreeing with me no matter what I say or what opinion I may have, I may be somewhat slanted in the opposite view of alpha males. I don't even think their intent has to be outright malicious for their behavior to rub someone like me the wrong way b/c I have been very much conditioned to resent it. The problem is, I have no skill in standing up for myself. Over time my confidence has also evaporated (not that there was much there to begin with), and as a consequence of this evaporation I feel that I would be in the wrong to assert myself and to say, "back off." So I do nothing.

I got a bit off track there in the last paragraph. But to go back to what MountZion mentioned, I agree that there are alpha males who are really good people. They are magnanimous, easy-going and kind-hearted, and although they may really be in a great place in their own lives, they aren't ones to judge others or to look down upon others. They aren't the kind to ridicule others for the sake of their own sense of worth and validation. BUT sadly, I think this group is a minority of alphas. Many alphas feel a sense of entitlement and are conditioned to believe that they can have whatever they want (And I'm talking the hardcore genetically predisposed alpha, not a well meaning Beta with a kind heart who over many years works to achieve some semblance of alphadom). They like being king of the hill and enjoy the ribbing of those that they perceive to be different or beneath them. Most women will be drawn to their confidence and self-assuredness, but many will come to find that they may not be the best options for the long-term. But too late!! The alpha male has already gotten what he wanted anyway, probably on that very first night.



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09 Sep 2009, 1:59 pm

DylanMcKay wrote:
BUT sadly, I think this group is a minority of alphas. Many alphas feel a sense of entitlement and are conditioned to believe that they can have whatever they want (And I'm talking the hardcore genetically predisposed alpha, not a well meaning Beta with a kind heart who over many years works to achieve some semblance of alphadom). They like being king of the hill and enjoy the ribbing of those that they perceive to be different or beneath them.

But this kind of reaction is common among people with self-esteem and confidence issues, and is not limited to alphas or betas or even guys.

I think that alpha males are born with a natural predisposition to have or acquire a certain kind of power that can be used for people's benefit, or detriment. It's the alpha male's upbringing and experience (or lack thereof) that will determine which outcome will prevail. The "goodness" of the alpha male is far from guaranteed. :?


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MountZion
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09 Sep 2009, 4:08 pm

Stinkypuppy wrote:
DylanMcKay wrote:
BUT sadly, I think this group is a minority of alphas. Many alphas feel a sense of entitlement and are conditioned to believe that they can have whatever they want (And I'm talking the hardcore genetically predisposed alpha, not a well meaning Beta with a kind heart who over many years works to achieve some semblance of alphadom). They like being king of the hill and enjoy the ribbing of those that they perceive to be different or beneath them.

But this kind of reaction is common among people with self-esteem and confidence issues, and is not limited to alphas or betas or even guys.

I think that alpha males are born with a natural predisposition to have or acquire a certain kind of power that can be used for people's benefit, or detriment. It's the alpha male's upbringing and experience (or lack thereof) that will determine which outcome will prevail. The "goodness" of the alpha male is far from guaranteed. :?


Wonderfully put. Not every alpha male will be a saint, no man is. But, there are probably more good Alphas than bad, I would say. I think many of us are in the Gamma stage.



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09 Sep 2009, 4:47 pm

"The term "alpha male" is sometimes applied to human beings to refer to a man who is powerful or in a high social position, similar to hegemonic masculinity. It is also used to explain the conduct of several adolescents that compete openly to call more attention, often being hostile."

That is the definition, in humans, not animals. You people are simply arguing semantics. And experience would agree with the real definition, I think. And as far as self-confidence...that is nothing but another word for arrogance. You cannot know with perfect certainty that any particular action you take will result in the desired outcome, especially when that action involves other people, as it most often does when talking about self-confidence. It is a lie one tells one's self and projects to others. It is a falsehood. To aspire to be an alpha male is to aspire to dominance over the herd. The method used to aquire such dominance is irrelavent. Alpha males are just attention seekers and power hungry. They are not to be praised.



MountZion
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09 Sep 2009, 5:29 pm

drowbot0181 wrote:
"The term "alpha male" is sometimes applied to human beings to refer to a man who is powerful or in a high social position, similar to hegemonic masculinity. It is also used to explain the conduct of several adolescents that compete openly to call more attention, often being hostile."

That is the definition, in humans, not animals. You people are simply arguing semantics. And experience would agree with the real definition, I think. And as far as self-confidence...that is nothing but another word for arrogance. You cannot know with perfect certainty that any particular action you take will result in the desired outcome, especially when that action involves other people, as it most often does when talking about self-confidence. It is a lie one tells one's self and projects to others. It is a falsehood. To aspire to be an alpha male is to aspire to dominance over the herd. The method used to aquire such dominance is irrelavent. Alpha males are just attention seekers and power hungry. They are not to be praised.


I can understand parts of what you say. However, some of the things said here, such as "Alpha Males are just attention seekers and power hungry", a statement which I personally believe is simply a broad generalisation based upon a completely different interpretation of the term "Alpha Male".

I find it hilarious but at the same time distressing that some people will refer to sub-standard men in "positions of power" by a term that is meant to be for a man who is meant to be everything a man must become in order to be the best he can be for others as well as himself.



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09 Sep 2009, 6:43 pm

drowbot0181 wrote:
And as far as self-confidence...that is nothing but another word for arrogance. You cannot know with perfect certainty that any particular action you take will result in the desired outcome, especially when that action involves other people, as it most often does when talking about self-confidence. It is a lie one tells one's self and projects to others. It is a falsehood. To aspire to be an alpha male is to aspire to dominance over the herd. The method used to aquire such dominance is irrelavent. Alpha males are just attention seekers and power hungry. They are not to be praised.

Self-confidence does not equal arrogance. Arrogance refers to a belief that somehow you or your actions are better than someone else or someone else's. Self-confidence has no bearing on how well you do compared to another person, but rather compares your performance to a standard set by yourself. For example, I can display self-confidence on the road by, among other things, knowing how to handle road emergencies as they come. I know how to change a flat tire. That has no bearing on how well I can do those things compared to the skill of another person.

I think it's very judgmental to think that genuine alpha males are simply "attention seekers and power hungry... not to be praised". They shouldn't be praised for naturally being in that position; it's something that just is. That'd be like praising an NT person for being NT, something he or she has absolutely no control over. AS folks have a natural tendency to try to be authoritative in their knowledge. We're the "little professors." Does that mean that that's "attention seeking, power hungry"? Maybe. Should they be praised for doing that? Not necessarily. But those things are not intrinsically bad, like you seem to suggest. The fact is that they are neither good nor bad. They're neutral. There's nothing wrong with having power. There's nothing wrong with having attention. It's what we do with those things that merit a judgment of good or bad, not the things themselves.


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09 Sep 2009, 6:44 pm

I do not believe that once non-Alpha, always non-Alpha.


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09 Sep 2009, 6:45 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I do not believe that once non-Alpha, always non-Alpha.

Just as we are not restricted to an AS label or NT label. 8)


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BobTheMartian
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09 Sep 2009, 6:47 pm

drowbot0181 wrote:
"The term "alpha male" is sometimes applied to human beings to refer to a man who is powerful or in a high social position, similar to hegemonic masculinity. It is also used to explain the conduct of several adolescents that compete openly to call more attention, often being hostile."

That is the definition, in humans, not animals. You people are simply arguing semantics. And experience would agree with the real definition, I think. And as far as self-confidence...that is nothing but another word for arrogance. You cannot know with perfect certainty that any particular action you take will result in the desired outcome, especially when that action involves other people, as it most often does when talking about self-confidence. It is a lie one tells one's self and projects to others. It is a falsehood. To aspire to be an alpha male is to aspire to dominance over the herd. The method used to aquire such dominance is irrelavent. Alpha males are just attention seekers and power hungry. They are not to be praised.


I agree somewhat with this interpretation. The status of alpha male is entirely situationally dependent. In certain environments one particular type of person might be the alpha male while in certain others they would be at the bottom rung of the social latter (Try to picture a stereotypical jock at a Star Trek convention... You honestly think he'll be leading the herd?)

Alpha male is simply another word for 'leader' in a broad sense; the guy who everybody follows and listens to, regardless of why, or how. Alpha is the first letter of the greek alphabet, the alpha male is literally the one who sits on the top rung of the social ladder. And as we all know, anything involving a social aspect is arbitrary to some extent.

I've been in environments that placed me along just about every rung in the social ladder, including alpha male, and even one particular one where I was an alpha male and then due to circumstances and sabotage by what MountZion would call stereotypical 'ass-betas' I went all the way to the very bottom, the scapegoat hated by all. Any distinction defined by society is at the whim of society's arbitrary standards and circumstances, not so much anybody's genetic pre-disposition or personality. Your predisposition requires an interaction with an environment that assigns certain treatments to that predisposition to mean anything at all.

I would loosely define the alpha male as "the person most in their element" for any given situation.


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Last edited by BobTheMartian on 09 Sep 2009, 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MountZion
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09 Sep 2009, 6:49 pm

Stinkypuppy wrote:
drowbot0181 wrote:
And as far as self-confidence...that is nothing but another word for arrogance. You cannot know with perfect certainty that any particular action you take will result in the desired outcome, especially when that action involves other people, as it most often does when talking about self-confidence. It is a lie one tells one's self and projects to others. It is a falsehood. To aspire to be an alpha male is to aspire to dominance over the herd. The method used to aquire such dominance is irrelavent. Alpha males are just attention seekers and power hungry. They are not to be praised.

Self-confidence does not equal arrogance. Arrogance refers to a belief that somehow you or your actions are better than someone else or someone else's. Self-confidence has no bearing on how well you do compared to another person, but rather compares your performance to a standard set by yourself. For example, I can display self-confidence on the road by, among other things, knowing how to handle road emergencies as they come. I know how to change a flat tire. That has no bearing on how well I can do those things compared to the skill of another person.

I think it's very judgmental to think that genuine alpha males are simply "attention seekers and power hungry... not to be praised". They shouldn't be praised for naturally being in that position; it's something that just is. That'd be like praising an NT person for being NT, something he or she has absolutely no control over. AS folks have a natural tendency to try to be authoritative in their knowledge. We're the "little professors." Does that mean that that's "attention seeking, power hungry"? Maybe. Should they be praised for doing that? Not necessarily. But those things are not intrinsically bad, like you seem to suggest. The fact is that they are neither good nor bad. They're neutral. There's nothing wrong with having power. There's nothing wrong with having attention. It's what we do with those things that merit a judgment of good or bad, not the things themselves.


Interesting......I think Arrogance is merely a perception, based upon one person's own self confidence, and other people's insecurities. (Not to say there aren't any genuinely arrogant people :oops: )