When family disapproves

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Now, I'm not talking about family of either potential bf/gf disapproving of a person because they're like, a 'rebel' or a druggie or something. I'm talking about, if you find a girl or guy that you like, and they like you, and one or both of you are NOT NT, what about the families of the people involved, yours and theirs? How big of an obstacle can they be? How much disapproval does there have to be on ANY side and either family before you or the both of you say "Screw it, this will never work"?

Or, does the prospects of asking someone get more difficult if you know family members (yours or theirs) MIGHT or already dislike you (or them)?

one thing I miss about having a family is the fact that rebelling against them felt so damn good

so I'd say the more disapproval the better for the relationship!

Family disapproval should have no effect on a relationship whatsoever.

It is about the COUPLE, not the family, right?

Besides, rebelling is quite fun. Romio/Juliet situation might be rather romantic. As long as nobody dies.

In my case they just assume I am too young to date since Asperger's makes me younger than my age. Even though I am 29, they think I am still 12. Now, they knew about two girlfriends I had, Sarah and Jennifer. In case of Sarah they did bait and switch, meaning most of the things they said about Sarah were positive, but then at the very end they would insert "by the way don't go too far". Looking back I see that "by the way don't go too far" effectively meant that I should be just friends with her; thus, everything postitive that has been said are only why she is good AS A FRIEND, and none of it count girlfriend-wise.

Now, I told them loud and clear that Sarah was my girlfriend, not just a friend. What happened was that they thought that I was so naive that I didn't even know what "girlfriend" is and that Sarah was really my friend and I mistook her for the girlfriend. My mom was insinuating this a number of times. When I asked her why, she would come up with some excuses such as we never had sex and girlfriend means sex -- even though the reason we didn't have sex is that *I* don't believe in sex before marriage, so as far as Sarah is concerned I cuold have it I just chose not to.

Now, in case of my second girlfriend, Jennifer, at the beginning she probably also assumed that it was just a friend, which is why she reacted happilly when I told her I found a girlfriend. One evidence for it is that my mom's landlord, Jack, was referring to her as friend, and only my mom referred to her as girlfriend, which means my mom was just doing it to please me.

Now, this situation changed when my mom learned of the fact that we planned a trip to North Carolina. She was totally against that trip because it interfered with the trip to Ukraine that she planned. But I know that the truth is that she simiply didn't want me to go to NC because this marks that we are, in fact, a couple rather than just friends like my mom would prefer to think. This is evident from her first reaction: "why North Carolina?" with very wide eyes. When I then asked her why not, only few minutes later did she mention Ukraine.

Anyway, ever since that trip to North Carolina she was agressively attacking anything and everything that has anything to do with Jennifer. Typically, any plans that she has which conflicts with Jennifer is always VERY important, even though the same exact plan was not important at all when I was single. For example, when I was single I usually did NOT go to my mom's to celebrate passover since my school is few states away. But the moment I mentioned I was going to spend passover with Jennifer then all of a sudden it became VERY IMPORTANT that I go to my mom's for passover because "my grandmother" misses me. Well, I guess to be fair the reason the topic came up is that I already defended my thesis by then, so I had no reason to I had no reason to stay any longer at school. But still, I have asked my mom to cancel a number of other plans she was making, mainly because I felt I had to study. None of these caused any dramma. But anything and everything with Jennifer is very dramatic.

To give you even better picture, right around passover Jennifer's grandmother and her aunt were in a very severe car accident. When I told my mother that I wanted to see them to emotionally support them, she told me that my grandmother has pre-hernia consultation so I have to emotionally support her. Well, the actual hernia surgery didn't ever happen, and its already been almost half a year since then. Yet, according to my mom, the PRE-hernia operation was more important than the serious injury of two of Jennifer's relatives who are lucky to even stay alive.

My parents are VERY persistent. For instance, I told them that I was going to see her for Christmass last year probably in September, and they were arguing with me that I shouldn't go almost daily, and sometimes the phone calls took several hours, and it continued until I finally agreed not to go, at mid November. Their main argument was that I had to defend in January so I shoudln't get disracted from my work. But at the same time, all this time they talked to me was fine even though it sure disracted me much more. They also completely ignored the fact that Jennifer promised me to make a good environment for me to study, they claimed that they KNOW it won't be the case.

Anyway, Jennifer broke up with me two months ago, mainly since, according to her, I am always put my family first. The funny thing is that according to my family I always put Jennifer first and they feel I do it too much so. In reality I am simply being torn to pieces: I am being pulled in two opposite directions and I don't know what to do other than the fact that I wish either side would stop and they don't.

Part of the reason why my last relationship ended was because he was "sick of always having to defend (me) to (his) family". He claimed to hate his family and to love me, but in the end, their approval mattered more to him than I did.

"Screw them, they don't live our lives." Period.

In the early days family approval doesn't especially matter becuase there are ways around it.

But a wise man - well, my barber - once told me that you don't marry the girl, you marry her family. And if they hate you, your days are probably numbered if you want to stick around.

If you're looking for 'the one' then the family liking you matters, because you shouldn't ask a girl to give up their family for you. By the same token, if they are willing to do that - make sure they really ARE, mind - then that should only be done for a real relationship with a future, i.e. marriage or something, not just for a six-month-old relationship.

Exactly.

I think it also depends on how close you are with your family and the reasons they're concerned. In my case, every single time my Mother told me to be careful because I was going to get my heart broken, she was right. Same with two of my close friends. If they tell me to be careful, they usually end up being right. That's because they know me very well and they want the best for me. If someone was really bringing out the best in me, I know they would be supportive. But if someone is bringing me down, or making me lose my sense of self and I'm too close to the situation to see it clearly, then they step in and tell me and it's up to me whether I listen or not.

In my case it is the same think they do it to protect me. But they don't know what my needs are. For instance, when my mom eats beef her stomach is heavy, so she assumes I am the same way. Or when I wear a backpack that looks heavy she assumes it is too heavy for me. So in the same way she assumes that I can't handle some relationships that I really can.

And, as far as your comment about their observations on how another person produces a change in your behavior, well in my case I can act upset for all kinds of reasons, not the least of them is being stuck somewhere in my physics work. But my mom assumes that if my voice sounds upset it has to be due to whatever she DECIDED is a reason, never mind the fact that I tell her otherwise.

That's why I can only speak for myself. The people who's advice I trust most in my life know me well enough to know what is exactly affecting my moods/changes. But I also am very open when it comes to talking about things and I don't hold back (which can be a blessing or a curse) so it makes it easier for them to conclude what the heart of the issue is. That being said, few things piss me off more than assumptions. If someone assumes on thing about me and it's not the case, I'll be quick to point it out.

Sometimes the people in our life are so wrapped up in thinking they know best that they're just talking, not really listening. Sounds like that's the case with your Mum.

Ultimate responsibility for the success and failure lies within the individual. The family is there to help provide guidance and direction - but it is not their life to live. Nor, if they truly cared, would want you to follow their advice 100%.

Disapproval should be expressed, either backed by fact or simply as concern for the relationship. However, it should be tempered with the care/love of those giving the advice to support the individual regardless of their choices.

Otherwise it's just a means of manipulation. And relationships can generally do without external manipulation.

Unless you get a kick out of it, and then it's fun.

But, based on what you just said, wouldn't you classify what my mom did to be manipulation? Here is what it is:

1) During the remainder of the time before I had to go to North Carolina my mom (NOT me!) said that I her honest advice is that I "throw Jennifer into garbage and wipe my feet off of her", "run away from her as fast as she can", that she is "a wolf with sharp teeth", etc.

2) Again, before North Carolina my mom said that Jennifer is

a) hysteric woman (that was in response to my telling her that Jennifer cries, so again my mom refused to see a clear evidence that Jennifer is a victim and instead used it against her, just like Europe refuses to see that Jews are victims and thus using things against them)

b) that if I go to North Carolina Jennifer will "drag" me into a bed with her and "make sure we have a child" in order to trap me

c) that she will ruin my career because I mentioned that she is against my studying physics (when me, my mom and Jennifer met, my mom asked Jennifer if I would have time to study, I answered yes, and then few minutes later I doulbe-checked with Jennifer if I was right saying yes since I wanted to avoid comming across as lying in Jennifer's favor, and my mom got all over that one little double-check)

d) That Jennifer is fat and no sane guy would ever be with a monster like that, so of course she wants me since I am the only one crazy to be with her

e) That, since Jennifer has polycistic ovaries, which is HORMONAL and would make her INFERTILE, I shouldn't ever be with her (NOTE: it contradicts part b where she is afraid I would get a kid with her)

3) Then she also told my dad (and my dad is in Russia while we were in USA) as to how horrible Jennifer is. He then called me from Russia and left a message that I ran onto a "b***h". When I called him back to talk about it, he told me that Jennifer is a lose woman who sleeps around with all kinds of guys. When I tried to counter him by telling him how there was a particular guy who competed with me to be with her, he said that she made that guy up, and if I remember correctly he also said that no one would seriously want her anyway to back it up.

4) AFTER North Carolina there was another BIG fiasco as to whether or not I should go to Christmass to see her family. UN-like North Carolina, both of my parents had VERY STRONG postition that I absolutely should NOT see her on Christmass, and they would insist on that position even if I do try to openly argue with it. Their reason was that my thesis defense was at the end of January so it would be "ridiculous" to see a family right before the thesis defense. There were quite a few counter-arguments I would bring up (although I would phrame it as "jennifer said X can you help me argue with her" which they would ignore and act as if it was my opinion, just like they ignored it before North Carolina) none of which they heard. They are as follows:

a) I have plenty of time BEFORE Christmass, so I have time to prepare. Their response: what if you won't? My counter-argument: if the defense was BEFORE Christmass, I would be able to prepare, right? So, why can't I pretend it is before Christmass

b) Jennifer told me several times her family will let me study! In fact she said that her dad for the most part just watches TV! They would tell me that Jennifer can't speak for others (even if I CLEARLY tell them she KNOWS them it is her own family) or that they KNOW it is rude if I just study, never mind that Jennifer should be the one concerned if it is rude or not. BOTTOM LINE: they simply don't believe that Jennifer would let me study, they think she lies to me

c) I should go on Dec 22 to California (where my mom lives) to celebrate my grandmother's birthday. PLEASE NOTE: when I decided to cancel BOTH California (where my mom lives) AND Arizona (where Jennifer's family lives), in favor of staying in Michigan to study for the exam, it didn't matter any more that I missed my grandmother's birthday.

d) If I insist on going to Arizona, why don't I go few days later so I can have my last meeting with one of the ppl in my dissertation committee. Well, I was meeting one of them twice a week and the other three times a week, so ONE last meeting didn't matter that much if I had 20 meetings until that one. YET, that meeting WAS important enough to miss my grandmother's birthday, yet Jennifer's family was not (just like the Jews are "not important" when it comes to the way Europe treats them).

5) When I refutted the above arguments, they resorted to openly saying their real concerns:

a) If I go to Arizona Jennifer will force me to marry

b) On top of forcing me to marry her, she will force me to abandone my career as a physicist, and find me a job as a janitor

c) Jennifer is like a garbage can, and other girls are like fine restaurants, and they don't get why I eat from a garbage can while there are 10 fine restaurants just around the block?

6) After Christmass when I was done with my ph.d. defense my mom wanted me back to see my grandmother for a passover. Jennifer on the other hand wanted me in Michigan. My mom was bringing up some strong reasons for me to go to passover, such as my grandomther is old and might die, so when else will I selebrate passover with her, especially since I go to India for postdoc and who knows if I will be able to come back for passover next year. Now PLEASE NOTE: previous years I didn't celebrate passover in California either, because of school. It was never an issue. Yet, once Jennifer was around it became an issue. It is similar to the way how whenever Arabs attack each other it is never an issue, but when Jews are the ones that, supposedly, attack Arabs, it becomes an issue.

7) Right before the passover, Jennifer's grandmother and aunt were in a terrible car accident. They were both having serous hemirages and were unconscious for a few days. Her aunt also bit off her tongue off. Also, it looked like one or both of them were going to die (it turned out that neither died, although her aunt ended up with permanent brain damage so that she acts like 5 year old sometimes). Anyway, I called my mom to make it a reason to see it. Her response:

a) NO, I should see my grandmother because my grandmother has hernia PRE-surgery appointment. By the way, it was April, and my grandmother STILL haven't gotten an actual surgery appointment. Yet, being with my grandmother for her PRE-surgery was more important than attending to Jennifer's family who were actually dying

b) My mom's land lord asked me how do I know Jennifer is telling the truth about the car accident. So in other words, they assume she lies. If someone lies, what do you do? You IGNORE everything they say, just like Europe IGNORED the fate of Jews under Hitler or under Arabs.

c) My mom pointed out how the fact that Jennifer won't go there without me (she is not allowed to see them while they are in intense care, unless they are in a direct family) shows what kind of horrible attitude she has towards her own family

8 ) Since Jennifer didn't want to let me to choose passover with my family over her, I perswaded her to make a compromise, so I took her there with me. She wrote a very long email to my mom detailing all of our past disagreements. In each case she would write three parts: what she (Jennifer) did wrong, what my mom did wrong, and what Jennifer expects different for the future. Even though Jennifer spent JUST AS MUCH time admitting her own mistakes as she did outlining my mom's, my mom TOTALLY IGNORED the part where she admitted her own mistakes and viewed that email as another attack on her, even though the TRUE intention of the email was to make piece. Again, this is similar to the way Europe views Jews. The reason the behavior of Jews towards Arabs is viewed in such a negative light is that they totally IGNORED what Arabs do to Jews. In the same way, the reason the email that Jennifer wrote is viewed in such a negative light is that my mom totally ignored everything that Jennifer said where she admitted her own mistakes. MY MOM THEN WENT AS FAR AS REPRINTING THAT EMAIL AND SHOWING IT TO ALL HER FRIENDS, ALL OF WHICH CONFIRMED THAT THE EMAIL WAS "AN ATTACK". ONE OF HER FRIENDS DID PSYCHOANALYSIS OF THAT EMAIL AND WROTE AN "EVALUATION" OF JENNIFER, all of which was done without her permission!

9) While at the passover, one of my mom's friends (the same one as the one who did the evaluation of the email) said, in Russian, that Jennifer is very ugly (she weighs 250 lbl). Now, everyone there knew Russian except for Jennifer. Then, my grandmother wanted to talk to me because "she haven't seen me for such a long time". When she did talk, she told me how I am such a fair guy and Jennifer is such a monster and she doesn't understand why I was with her. When I told Jennifer what my grandmother said after I talked to her Jennifer was very upset. I then held her hand while there was a concert at our house (it was few days AFTER passover, so the concert had nothing to do with it) and then my mom criticized me for holding her hands during the concert because it "disracts the audience".

10) I then went to see Jennifer's family for easter. It was only for a couple of days. Yet, my mom called Jennifer's family because I didn't call her when she expected. Since Jennifer didn't give any permission to my mom to call her family, this put her in a bad mood and ruined the whole thing.

11) Even though I have defended thesis a few months ago, the official graduation was in May. The ticket back was scheduled on saturday. Jennifer was very upset that I didn't stay with her for Sunday as well. I first accused my mom as to why did she "forget" to schedule ticket for sunday. She pointed out that I forgot it too, since she asked me if the saturday ticket was okay. I then started whining as to what to do to "fix" it now that we forgot. She had no answer, as if she OVERLOOKED something obvous: change the ticket (just like Europe "overlooked" the option of bombing railroads leading to concentration camps). I THEN SHOVED THAT OPTION INTO HER FACE, AND PRESNTED IT AS MY OWN WISH NOT HERS (just like Jews, after being tried with seeing the world ingoring that option during WW2, they shove the option of self-defence into the world's face as they deal with Palestinians) but my mom ACTIVELY argued against it (just like the world actively argues against Israel's self defense). We had a week long fight, which consisted on me pointing out why is ONE SINGLE DAY matter so much, and my mom telling me some lame things as someone has to teach me to sing and he only has 2 days so one more day would help. Well c'mon 2 days or 3 days don't make a difference! Her other excuse was that she felt sick while at my graduation so she wanted me to accompany her on a plane back, and she was going back on Saturday. Well, she is over protective so she NEVER expects me to take care of her while sick, so this was clearly a plot for her to separate me from Jennifer.

12) Before graduation she asked me if Jennifer is comming, I said I didn't bring up a subject to her, and that I was going to call her and ask. My mom stopped me from calling her and saying that she would feel more comfortable without her. I didn't call. Then the next day I felt angry that I didn't call, and when graduation neared I wanted to call her to get her come as fast as possible so she won't be late. MY MOM DENIED WHAT SHE DID YESTERDAY (just like Europe denies the fate of the Jews) and told me that she REMINDED me to call her and I CHOSE not to. Well, its like she thinks I am stupid that I would think that telling me NOT to call her amounts to reminding me to call her. Anyway, I then outbursted during graduation by running up to a chair mad and swearing at him. Then after that I wanted to "fix" it. So when me, my mom, and Jennifer were supposed to meet, I ran off away from BOTH of them to look for a chair man. Then while I was gone, my mom attacked Jennifer -- for instance Jennifer said that my mom told her that I was scared of her which is why I ran. Again, my mom IGNORES a scenario that Jennifer might be a victim (i.e. I decided to disrespect Jennifer by running), and the only way to do it is to say that Jennifer is a threat (i.e. I was scared of her which is why I ran). This ruined the graduation.

13) When my mom finally agreed to let me stay one more day with Jennifer she told me that her condition is that I don't make "any plans" with Jennifer, such as the next Christmass. I then told my mom that I don't have to defend thesis after next Christmass, so whats wrong with it? She said that I don't know how many free days I will have as a post doc, and Jennifer won't care, if I have plans with her Jennifer will make me follow through no matter what. I then told her that if Institute won't allow me to, I will say so. My mom told me that no I won't and reminded me how I insisted that I was "perfectly ready" and "really wanted" to see Jennifer for previous Christmass despite my defense few weeks later. AGAIN SHE COMPLETELY FORGOT THAT WHEN I WAS PRESENTING ARGUMENTS TO SEE JENNIFER PREVIOUS CHRISTMASS I ALWAYS FRAMED THEM AS "JENNIFER WANTS ME TO DO IT BECAUSE OF X, I DON"T WANT TO DO IT, CAN YOU HELP ME REFUTE X SO I CAN COUNTER JENNIFER". But she forgot all that and decided that I said, FROM MYSELF, that I believed X. Never mind the fact that if I really believed X or really wanted to go to Christmass I won't be asking my mom for advice on how to counter Jennifer. Again, she ignores whenever Jennifer is a victim!

^How much money does this Jennifer make?

If I was your Jennifer, I would never marry you.
I would hate to have your mother as a mother-in-law

Sorry to say Roman.

My family disapproved of my last relationship, but to be honest she couldn't stop lying. When I broke it off at the end I had no idea which parts were lies and which were truth. It may have all very well been a fabrication. To be quite honest, it was a mess, and when I couldn't tell which parts were true, the very things that attracted me to her in the first place were in question.

My current relationship has none of those problems. My girlfriend is honest to me, open, willing to take things fast or slow, and we're just enjoying what time we can get together. We make each other smile and laugh, but more than anything I just want to be near her.

Roman, your mother is one part clash of cultures with a huge dose of "omg that's a nightmare to deal with." In a case like yours, I would say that the less you tell her the better. The less she knows, the less she can comment on. Chances are, no woman will ever meet her standards unless she hand picked her, herself. Jennifer must have balls of steel to stick this out because I'm not sure I could hack it.