Um... what is this?

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There seems to be a recurring theme for me: girls/women at school or work, casual acquaintances at most, will talk to me a few times, then start what has, by now, become a recognizable arc of what I would call flirtatious attention, which levels off into normal or no interaction over weeks or months, and, also predictably, I'll sooner or later find out they've had at least a fairly serious boyfriend the entire time.

I'm not complaining or whining or anything, it's just I've been trying to rationally and constructively figure this out, but frankly I just end up with more questions about what exactly is occurring here and it's happened more or less the exact same way 5+ times over the past few years. I'm curious/intrigued/wondering.

These have all been nice girls/women who I wouldn't think of as being underhanded, mean, playing with me or anything like that. So forget that right now.

Although I have AS, I think I have a pretty good knack for putting together and circumstantially establishing what things mean broadly, and suffice to say, for each of these individuals, in addition to the little isolated, mistakable things like hair-playing, regular chats initiated by her and more/longer attempts at eye contact than average, they each purposefully seemed to cross the line at least once (i.e. leaning way over me to read something, very deliberately crouching down right in front of me where I'd see the undies right after I'd apparently done it to them; we were the same that day! )

It's like despite how hard I try to maintain my skepticism, the girl/woman has seemed to try progressively harder to convince me she's interested, but without fail, as soon as I've begun to decide there's definitely no mistake, she seems to have spontaneously lost interest. And of course, I've pretty much come to expect there being a boyfriend having been waiting in the wings the entire time. And it's very strange because it keeps happening the same way again and again...

Is it all in my head? Am I missing out? Were they just being friendly? Or should I have done something? Were any of them trying to give me an in to breaking up her and her bf? Or were any of them just trying to be 'just friends' and then realized what I was starting to think and thought I was a creep? I realize a completely different story could account for each individual, it's just amazingly consistent circumstances from my POV...

I know these were all neurologically typical girls/women who didn't seem to have any problem sociallizing naturally and effortlessly, so is it possible I'm just making a huge honking deal over things that aren't really a big deal to them? Were they just kind of giving me a little poke to see what would happen, not realizing my head might explode? Or could it be that there's something about me that provokes this kind of attention from certain types in certain situations?

I concede that, inevitably, I've probably unknowingly neglected something important that would make this all make sense to someone else, but... any thoughts, anyone? I don't know what's been going on. And thank you for reading all this; it got kinda long.

I have no idea but I can imagine that it would be quite frustrating for you.

Although you have not specifically stated this, I would understand if you found these situations to be a little frustrating. But at least these women/girls are interacting positively with you. They are probably just being friendly and see you as being an easy person to engage with. What some people (men and women alike) like to do is be flirtatious with people they don't necessarily intend to be with or have feelings for, friendly banter if you like. I have this kind of banter with some of my friends, although I don't think I have gone as far as to bend down and show them my undies. For starters, I'm not a skirt person, so in order to do this, I would have to pull my jeans or trousers down, hardly subtle eh?

There are so many possible explanations, it's hard to give you much direction. The next time it happens, why don't you ask the young lady out? Ask her to grab a cup of coffee or a drink after work. When you ask, be open-ended so you'll be able to tell the difference between a real scheduling conflict (lack of availability) and a polite refusal, e.g., "Would you like to grab a drink after work some time?" (As long as you're not either supervising or being supervised by the lady in question...that would be a workplace no-no.) If she turns down an open-ended invitation, she's not interested (and you may be misinterpreting).

It does sound to me like there's a little flirting going on - but flirting doesn't necessarily equal real interest. Perhaps they finally back off because they think they've been sending all the right signals, and you're not responding, so you must not be interested. Take a chance, dude. The worst that will happen is she'll say no - and that won't kill you. Then again....she might just say yes. Stop trying to figure it out and get in the game.

Actually, the way womens' jeans and and underthings are fashioned in the US these days, it takes only a very slight bend at the middle to display the color of the day.

In fact, many (men and women) consider it stylish to make absolutely sure that underwear is never more than partially under anything, whether by designing pants to ride not ON the hips, but aside them, or in the case of young males) simply wearing trousers three or four sizes too large, so they droop like a half-full garbage bag.

But you can't make a fashion faux pas by going Commando. Refuse to choose!


Subtlety is a concept lost on modern American culture. (he says, turning now to the question of subtlety in workplace social interaction)...

CMaximus, I have no advice or insight to offer, other than to say, I, too have seen this pattern repeated again and again and have no idea where it comes from nor how to respond to it. It presents several problems, not least of which is making a mistaken assumption that this seemingly overt flirting is an invitation to pursuit can, if you are mistaken, get you fired from your job, and mistake or not, put you in position to be physically attacked by aforementioned significant other.

I don't know if this behavior (on the part of women, if a male were doing it, his intentions would be exactly what they appeared) is intended to be much more casual than it seems, if its done just for her own ego boost at being able to evoke a response from you, or if its the AS in us, that can't interpret signals very accurately, 'reading something in' through over-analysis that's not actually there to begin with. Or a combination of one or more , or something else we haven't even considered yet.

Iz a puzzlement.

I've had this happen to me several times before (not the undies thing though ), and yes, it can be kinda frustrating.

A couple possible reasons for this:

*They are doing it for the attention...for any number of reasons.
*You seem "safe" in their eyes, and they figure there is no harm in a little "friendly-flirting" with you.
*They are curious why you aren't paying attention to them like most other guys do (being a challenge), so they flirt around with you to see if they still "have what it takes", even though they may not even be interested in you.
*They really do like you.

Basically they are either interested in you, they need an ego-boost (due to low self-esteem, confidence), or they aren't getting all of their emotional needs met from their boyfriend's.

Actually, Willard, asking a co-worker to grab a cup of coffee after work some time is not going to get you fired from your job. The key is that you should understand your company's HR policies, and not attempt to socialize with a subordinate or your supervisor. And when you've asked once and been turned down, don't ask again. For the record, I've never known a single person who was ever physically attacked for asking a co-worker to grab a cup of coffee - never.

And no, any male's intentions are absolutely not clear based on his behavior. Do you honestly think women are the only ones who give out mixed signals or engage in confusing behavior. Ha freaking ha!

Seriously, OP - the next time this happens, ask the lady out. The worst thing that will happen is she'll say no. You'll survive - I promise.

I'm definitely not normal. But when I like a guy sometimes I'll just keep trying to get their attention for a while, then I suddenly stop one day because I lost all hope because he hasn't made any initiative. Might be a different situation though.

According to the few female NT's I know above the level of acquaintance and below the level of friend, this sounds like harmless flirting. They have told me that they do this very often as just part of social interaction because it's fun and friendly, not because they actually wish a relationship or sex, though they very well might find the person sexually attractive.

But here's the thing - the OP has said that after a period of time, the behavior stops. To me (NT girl) that means that the young lady has been sending a message. When there's no response, she assumes there's no interest, so she stops telegraphing her own interest. (If it's just harmless, friendly flirting, there would be no reason to stop the behavior.)

While I could easily dismiss the whole underwear thing (sometimes it just happens, folks) - the behavior where the lady leaned "way over" him to read something (I'm assuming they were both looking at a computer monitor, and she was leaning over his shoulder to see the screen) - I'm gonna throw the "flirting with intent" flag on that one. Particularly if there was actual body contact.

While even "flirting with intent" does not mean the young lady wants you to reciprocate the touching; wants to have sex with you; wants to marry you, etc., it does mean she's probably open to getting to know you better.....say, over a cup of coffee.

There are men that wear their pants like this in the UK too and do you know what? They think they are so awesome!! I avoid them like the plague. Well let's face it, if they can't even be bothered to dress properly or wear clothes that fit, how do they apply themselves to the rest of their existence? Their egos are as oversized as their trousers!!

Entirely possible. I haven't explored the subject very far. I merely asked female acquaintances why they flirted when they were taken. That was their answer. I never did explore it as to whether they would stop or whatnot, so I can't answer as to that question, nor do I have the personal experience (on the giving end anyway, I have received plenty of flirting, as it were)

I did not say male intent is always clear based on their behavior. My statement was not a blanket cover-all. What I said was, if a male were flirting with a female coworker, it would be exactly what it appeared - flirting - and the objective would not be just a mild ego boost.



You cannot promise that, and doing so is dangerous. Maybe you've never had some girl's psycho boyfriend punch you, stab you or pull a gun and shoot you, but don't kid yourself that it doesn't happen.

The most likely worst-case scenario though, is that you assume the flirting is in fact a sign of personal interest, find out the soul-crushing hard way that its not anything of the sort and have to continue working with this person every day for several months or years to come being reminded by her presence, what a pathetically stupid ass you've made of yourself.

At least that was the most common result of such experiences for me. Fortunately, it never lasted long, as I got fired quite frequently...

Okay, but your statement is absolutely incorrect. I can't imagine what you've based your conclusion on, but no - when men flirt, their objective is not always clear. I'm sorry, but I don't think I can express strongly enough how false that statement is.





I'm sorry, have you ever had someone punch you, stab you or shoot you because you asked a girl out for a cup of coffee after work? Have you ever known anyone that's happened to? We're talking about probability versus possibility here. Let's face it, people get hit by cars crossing the street, but I've crossed thousands of busy streets and never been hit by one car. Should I just stay on my side of the street from now on, because it's possible that a car could hit me?



I'm sorry you were disappointed, but a rejection is as soul-crushing as you let it be. You're a "pathetically stupid ass" for asking someone out? Then you've got good company, because every guy who's ever asked a girl out has been rejected at least once. It's a cup of coffee with someone - that's all....it doesn't have the power to crush your soul unless you give it that power.

Ugh... This was my life story up until I was 25 - there would always be someone interested and my personality pretty much shut it down. By the time I was 20 or 21 I had no desire whatsoever to even let myself be attracted to anyone who I couldn't see thing's clicking with - I'd talk to them, try to give them the benefit of the doubt and see if I could be my best self and still have things click; never worked.

The only thing I have to add though, in my situation - rather than casual flirting they were making it obvious and, what's somewhat worse, they'd take offense that I didn't take them up on it (or at least my attempts to communicate on that level were completely invisible to them). That amounted to about two or three weeks at a time of them trying to get my attention and then about a month or two where they'd be really salty with me to where I wouldn't even want to work with them.

Well, I'm glad that anybody at all knew what I was talking about. Yes, undies-girl was wearing jeans, and hunkering on tip-toes like I'd been; I wasn't wearing a skirt, but jeans, as well! And just in case Mr. bf ever did turn out to be crazy and violent, that's ok because I have a black belt in a wristy-twisty, try-and-stab-me, gun-in-my-face martial art. Also, while I won't say I'd relish beating up someone just for being someone else's boyfriend, I will say it would be rather convenient on my end for him to come after me first, for a complex, multi-faceted series of motivations on my part.

techstep, I've often taken to heart Morpheus' quote from the Matrix: 'Time is always against us.' Wavering between the need to think things through (thank you 'poor impulse control') and the pressure to act and not miss out/make things worse is kind of it's own dilemna, isn't it?

Really, this input has all been great. Coffee and all that's fine, but are there any major disaster-zones associated with simply asking 'I'm confused and am curious what your intentions for me are.'? This seems like the most succinct way all-around. However, I acknowledge this assumption sounds too good to be true or not have been tried before. On the other hand, if she's the type of woman who would answer me this way, then I suppose that's pretty good either way, and if she isn't... it's sort of like a test, you know?