Once you've established eye contact...

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You are in a bar or at a party and you spotted a girl/woman who's into you. How do you go from there? How do you establish eye contact without staring too much and creeping her out? What do you look at the rest of the time and how should I do the whole smiling thing?

And what do you say to her if you end up right behind her or in front of her? How do you address someone you don't know at a place you don't come very often?

Unfortunately you can never describe a scenario in enough detail to prescribe an exact course of action.

You have to be in enough of these situations to develop adaptive routines in yourself.

Adaptive routines that allow you to act context-appropriate. I.E. if there's a drunk making a horrible toast, you can exchange "wtf" looks with that girl and that alone can be an icebreaker.

You can make a comment about the girl's hair or clothing, but it has to be tasteful and appropriate. I think it's a pedestrian thing to do but it's not a bad one in the end.

Personally though, I don't like meeting people at places where I don't come very often. Others can spot when I am a "fish out of water", in an environment that I don't enjoy, and there with an agenda - such as meeting a woman.

For me, this never works. That's why I don't go to bars anymore, and avoid most parties. There's a large degree to which I can adapt, but in the end, it is still "acting", and women see right through that.

What is your current approach? The whole "picking up women at a bar" thing really doesn't seem to be my thing and the women I met online in the past all seemed to be quite mentally unstable. I'm not sure how to move on from here....

For relaxation I sometimes go to classical music concerts and to museums/galleries, etc. I often see lots of nice, classy young women there, who for the most part seem friendly, polite, and mentally normal. Not that I know how to approach them, but perhaps you'll succeed better. You're intelligent enough to either cultivate or fake an interest in classical music and/or "high end" art. Get yourself a nice suit (not too formal!) and read up on culture, I'd say. I might be wrong of course, but it's my impression that such women are often a bit less superficial than their less classy counterparts.

There's always lots of chitchat going on in the breaks of concerts. I once got into a really interesting conversation about Handel's use of fugue in his big choral pieces. Unfortunately, this happened only once and with an elderly man.

You know.....if you've caught a young lady's eye (she's looked at you, and smiled), don't worry about continuing to make eye contact with her - just work your way over to her and strike up a conversation. You can start with, "Hi, I'm ________." She'll tell you her name, and then perhaps you could make conversation about the event you're both attending? Or what each of you does for a living? Or some newsworthy recent event? See how receptive she is to your conversation starters. Don't compliment her (appearance, clothing, etc.) until you get a sense of whether she's receptive to you or not. If she is receptive, say something nice (but not creepy) like, "You have the nicest smile," or "Your eyes are such a deep brown/blue/green." Those statements will indicate your interest, without being inappropriately forward. Sound like a reasonable approach?

I found my ex-girlfriend and the one before her online. OkCupid and Craigslist.

I've also gotten a date off a Meetup.com group (non-dating) focused on my exact Myers-Briggs personality type. Quite a nice girl, but not enough chemistry. At first we spotted each other in a group and then went "to get coffee" a few days later.

But as of current moment I am very disillusioned with dating so I'm not the best person to ask.

How do you tell if she's into you?

And so keep trying. Ever hear that song, or saying, "Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places"? A lot of the wrong places are the places people go specifically for drinking. Not that I'm against drinking, though I can't at this time of my life, being on antidepressants, but drinking is not the basis for meeting the people you want to meet and building relationships. It's the basis for meeting people who drink a lot! Try frequenting places that cater to those who are interested in the things that you're interested in. If it's classical music or ballet, that's fine, but I wouldn't try to fake it. Don't use your current "special interest" or "obsession", but a past one that you still know a lot about. I've been through a lot in my life, and I've never really "lost" one, but they sort of back off when the current one takes over-- I'm still interested. Do something like going to classes or museums or events featuring those: if you're an old-movie or "film" buff, go to a place or an event that specializes in those, etc. If you like jazz, go to jazz places (those probably _will_ feature drinking, too, of course: jazz was born in the bars and the brothels, but it's attracted a different type now)

Also, of course, online, but not places that are focused on meeting people for dating, but rather focused on people who share your interests, as this place is focused on Autism-Aspergers. A young(ish) couple just got married this year in my religious denominational e-mail group, and they knew each other for ten years online before they met in the Real World, which took some traveling. Then they still took some time before deciding to get married (when they first met online, she was married to someone else, but that broke up all on its own: their knowing each other didn't cause it)

It's would definitely be change of environment.



And after that? If you start off with "it's so damn crowded over here" and she says just "yes, it is goddammit" the conversation is dead again. The problem is not so much finding one thing to say to her but keeping her interest for longer than half a minute without thinking of me as a freak.



How do you notice that? Us Aspies have no empathy, remember? To me it is practically impossible to see the difference between just being nice and being actually receptive.



Let's say I might be able to keep a conversation going for a few minutes if I manage to grab all my courage together and give it a go. But that's pretty much as far as I have ever gotten. Last time I tried I didn't get past eyeconcact even though I had two lesbian women accompanying me to coach me through the process.



Apparently if they like you they will look at you in short bursts and every now and then try to move close enough to you to create a moment that allows you to engage in conversation. I wouldn't have noticed it myself if my friends hadn't, though..... even though it was pretty obvious to me after they told me.

So here we have another problem. Without anyone to help me pick it up, I would never see who's interested in me and who isn't.



Same for me. Unfortunately, none of my previous interests are interesting conversation material with a stranger. The only thing I can think of is to go to a student bar and discuss history or maths with some of the female students over there, but it'll still be in an environment focused on drinking.



Events focused on movies are rare and people are always accompanied by their friends. It's hard to infiltrate in such a group.



I tried social networking sites like Facebook and IM programs like ICQ in the good old days. I had some success finding a girlfriend there, but it never lasted because in each relationship my girlfriend lost interest regardless of how much effort I put into the relationship myself...

These things can be learned. Empathy and eye contact can be learned, and so can "looking without staring". You're already getting into the eye contact part. With empathy, you remember how you felt yourself in a similar situation, and then logically figure that's probably how the other person is feeling. Of course, the more experience you get, the more similar situations you've been in. Practice makes perfect (or at least, "better", if not "perfect") Since your lesbian friends pointed you to what to look for, now just remember to look for it, without staring. If she's not really interested, and just being nice, listen to what she's saying. If she's trying to back away, let her, and find someone else.

NTs do this stuff almost naturally, but even they have a learning curve, though it's a shorter one. We just have to try harder. And keep trying.

That's not empathy. At most, that's figuring out a way around empathy. Anyway, I've perfectioned my skills more or less enough for casual conservations but not nearly enough for flirting and dating with a woman I don't know yet.



First of all, I woud never notice it myself if I didn't have someone to point it out to me. The eyecontact is much too subtle for me to pick it up and I really don't know how to look without staring. In fact, I need to look at a face for several seconds before I can deduct anything from a face and with the whole eye contact thing you simply don't have that long.



Well, I'm planning to but it's really hard if no one can give you any detailed scripts to follow....

by "into you" i presume you mean "is positively interested in me".

i never "spot" someone who is "into me" until they sit down at my table and hijack my attention and tell me so. i have not gone to the local tavern i used to eat at for about 1 year.
i did not like the food in the end so i never went back.
that was the only place where i went that i was forced to be with other people.

i used to order my dinner and get my papers out of my attache case and work on things while my dinner was being cooked.

many times i saw "knees" enter my view field, and when i looked up at the owner of the knees, it would be someone who was "interested" in what i was doing.

i used to ask them to "come back later", but some sat down anyway and tried to move too close to me.

sometimes i would explain what i was doing, and they would want to come back to my house later to continue talking.

on rare occasions i said yes, but they mostly wanted sex when i wanted to do the stuff i was planning while i was waiting for my meal.

after a few visits, they soon decided i was not very rich in an emotional sense and they dwindeld away in the diretion of men that would fight hard for to keep them as their own..

whatever
i just realized i am too old and different from you to comment further.
sorry

Correct. I thought the meaning was obvious. Do note that I'm not a native English speaker and I picked up most of my vocabulary from the Internet and Hollywood.



I don't think any woman has ever done that to me..... at least not as far as I can remember.



A man denying sex offered to him by a woman..... Do you have any idea how many men on this site would be jealous to experience an offer like that even once?

Now I'm not a virgin and I've even been in a relationship of 6 years, but the mere idea of having women step up to me and offer sex sound just totally alien to me. And it's not that I'm really ugly or obese or anything.



Well I'm 28. How old are you and in what way are you so different from me?

the tavern i used to eat at was also a pub and plenty of girls went there. i guess that is why.



sorry i do not wish to say things that make people feel uneasy.
i think the girls wanted maybe to see why i was so content with no friends possibly.
they wanted to see what i did with my time, but they could never understand so they got tired. and then they wanted to have sex.
it is just a normal thing i think. they usually went to bed and eventually yelled out "come to bed mark!" and i usually said "i will be there in one hour", but i rarely can finish what i am doing in that amount of time, so they went to sleep and the next day they politely thanked me for my time, and they went.

i may have been "lucky" to have girls interested when i dined at the tavern, but i am not interested in stopping my pursuits in order to lie aimlessly with them.
i am probably the unlucky one because i am oblivious to the pleasures someone else like you may experience in my situation.


well maybe it is because i am in australia or something? maybe it is because the pubs here have many girls going to them looking for sex.
i really have no idea.



i am 37 and i am not interested in thinking about getting sex i guess.
good luck to you in whatever you pursue.

At high school I was the only guy in a class full of girls and I still couldn't get along with any of them.



Weird but interesting story



So physical and/or mental intimacy with a woman doesn't give you a thrill at all?



Maybe I should move to Australia



Thanks. Well I'm more of a steady relationship guy, but I would already be happy if I could just manage to pick up girls for less serious engagements. I'm getting sick of meeting only unstable women online....

What is your first language? I went to your profile and blog to find out, and all I found out was that you know a lot more about brain physiology and its ramifications in behavior than I do! I've bookmarked the blog entry for further study. Anyway, you use colloquial American English much better than most of those for whom it's a second language! Thing is, I'm a Kansan (US) and 65 years old, and b9 is an Australian: slightly different forms of colloquial English. I remember when "into" was new slang, part of the secret language of teenagers, in the sixties, and since then we all grew up, still using it. Before that, nobody would have known what you meant, but you were using it correctly: "into" anything means "very interested in" that thing or person. In US colloquial idiom, anyway. I know other Australians on the net, and they say things that puzzle me.

Thinking more about your problem, I notice that you may have cultural differences to deal with, unless you're now living in the US, and my advice would be less useful. I'd say to get more tutoring from your lesbian friends, but that will take time, since a woman noticing you with interest would also notice that you're already with two women, and assume that you're "taken", by at least one of them.

One other thing, don't forget to _smile_ at the woman across the room! That may seem too obvious to mention, but for an Aspie, maybe not!

I can't exactly give you "scripts", because they depend too much on what the other person says: the tree diagram of choices gets too wide, too fast.