Advice for Aspies Interested in Dating NT Women

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I had a very brief, very intense relationship with an Aspie that did not end well. I learned a few things (the hard way) about navigating Aspie/NT relationships, and I thought I might offer some insights on the experience. I'd appreciate any constructive perspectives out there.

The bullets below summarize the key learnings (from my perspective):

• Understand the basic developmental stages of romantic relationships (in the NT world). The linked article below provides a very thorough summary of these stages. I'm not suggesting that you adapt to the NT idea of a relationship, but you should understand it, and understand how your approach differs.

http://www.lovecoachblog.com/the-eight- ... tionships/

• Discuss your expectations with regard to the development of the relationship with your partner. Be sure to over-communicate regarding any differences in expectations you may have.

• If you can't handle dating in any sense that most NTs would term "casual" - meaning non-exclusive, non-committed, no need for daily contact - that's your choice. However, it's absolutely your responsibility to let your prospective partner know that before you start dating.

• In the NT world, real commitment often occurs after months of dating (and completion of the Honeymoon and Discovery stages of the relationship). If you try to rush into commitment, you'll likely be making a commitment before you know your partner well enough to make an informed decision to commit.

• Be very clear about your Aspie characteristics, and realistic about the impact they may have on your relationship and relationship expectations. "My" Aspie had a trait he didn't disclose until after the relationship ended, and it had a significant impact on the relationship: he’s unable to process his feelings in "real time." As he explained it to me, it means that when asked to offer his opinion, he often "takes a guess" at what the response "should" be, and offers that response. Unfortunately, days later, he may realize that his real opinion is very different than the opinion he offered in "real time."

I have no idea how common this Aspie characteristic is among the Aspie population. However, if you have this particular trait, it's incredibly important that you disclose it to your partner at the very beginning of the relationship. I suspect that it can be accommodated successfully - but only if both parties are aware of it, and accept that processes have to be put in place to deal with it. When an agreement is reached, and later the assurances offered by one of the partners are determined to be invalid, it seems an awful lot like lying. This characteristic had caused similar problems in pretty much every prior relationship he'd had, but I don't think he'd made the connection between the characteristic, his need to compensate to behave "normally" in the NT world, and his ex-gfs' feeling betrayed by him.

• Try to understand that the coping skills that have helped you function in an NT environment may not actually serve you in a relationship with an NT partner (at least if your NT partner doesn’t want or need the pretense of you behaving as though you’re NT).

• Take a look at your past relationships to see if you can identify any trends (positive or negative). Do these trends have anything to do with your Aspie traits? Do you and your current partner need to develop a way to cope with those traits in your current relationship?

• Because we were faced with the challenge of a long-distance relationship, I also believe he felt overwhelmed by the possibility of relocating. He spoke of it as though it was something we'd have to do in the near future. All we really had to do in the near future was continue to get to know each other, and incorporate a visit into some business trips that were planned in the next few months. However, although he initially was fine with an LDR, he very quickly seemed horrified at the thought of moving (even though I was the most likely party to move). I think I was able to avoid being overwhelmed because I knew there were hundreds of things that had to happen before we decided to get married (which would have been the only way I would have moved), and if all of those hundreds of things had happened, that meant we would have fallen in love - rendering moving a minor detail.

• Communicate, communicate….then over-communicate.

We learned we were compatible regarding major issues: religion, politics, nutrition, exercise, inter-racial families, gun control, etc.; I was interested in his "special interests" (and even had applicable experience in them), so I was genuinely willing to take part in his special interest activities; we both have children the same age (although he has a special needs child - which was okay with me); we are in similar fields professionally, so we'd be able to talk knowledgeably about work; he was starting his own business, and I had owned my own business (I was okay with the demands on his time that starting a business require); we shared a similar sense of humor, and are both quite intelligent; and we were hot for each other. All things considered, we seemed like a great match….right up until it ended. Maybe some of the info above will help you avoid the same predicament.

Last edited by HopeGrows on 21 Dec 2009, 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aside from the excessive plugs to those e-courses, the article looks pretty solid. The only thing that didn't make sense was that it put the honeymoon before the discovery. Shouldn't discovery come first so that you can find out if you're compatible before a relationship starts?

If the woman were willing to not call it "dating", yeah, I'd be fine with it. We'd just be friends getting to know each other.

That's why I like to get to know someone for months/years before the relationship even begins...

I'd love to be able to do that, but I keep feeling as though I won't be accepted if I do that. What woman would want a man that spends huge amounts of time trying to think through a situation rather than rely on gut feelings and instinct? I told my last partner that I don't even have a gut feeling, and I was still called out for "overanalyzing"...

I tried to communicate as often as I could, always keeping the lines open, always trying to make sure that everything was all right. And apparently I was smothering her or something...

Maybe she just wanted some room to take a breather. The way you did it might have come across as overbearing perhaps. I dunno, im not a woman or an NT, this is just wild mass guessing.

I tried to over-communicate with my ex g/f but it only caused more trouble. I wouldn't date a woman who's dating another man.

I don't think I ever really followed any particular stages in my relationships. Things just happened spontaneously and I tried to get along with them as best as I could...



Unfortunately many women seem to be willing to talk about keeping in mind your difficulties but actually doing so seems often too much. Also, over-communication can easily become suffocating for either partner.



Obviously...



I don't know any couple (neurotypical or not) who showed only real commitment after months of dating. Most couples I know were either very commited from the beginning or never at all... pretty much like myself. Maybe this differs from culture to culture.



Since Aspies aren't empathic, that's quite normal. It takes a lot of brain power to figure out and while some can just think really fast others have to use a temporary and limited analysis in realtime and a more extensive analysis afterwards. Unfortunately many women have a problem with such traits even if they know them from the beginning.



Unfortunately...



I have been doing that with 5 different relationships, but nevertheless the same scenario keeps repeating itself. My girlfriend never seems to be willing to put the same amount of energy in the relationship...



Actually, in my case it was my girlfriend who was most reluctant to relocate.



That's just callong for suffocation !



Sounds like my last relationship...

I was under the impression that you hadn't dated NT women who didn't also have some fairly significant other issues? That could likely be the reason your past relationships didn't follow a more typical development pattern. Keep in mind that the linked article is written from the perspective of the "typical" NT population, and my comments are written from the perspective of an NT woman who would be considered pretty vanilla in terms of neural, developmental or psychological issues.



Yeah, I'm not dismissing your experience...clearly there is a difference between accepting someone in theory and in reality. My hope would be that both partners would be willing to work together to find a level of communication that works for them. However, when one or both partners brings a significant issue to the relationship, my opinion is that both partners have to be committed to doing extra work in the area of communication if the relationship is going to survive.



Well, it's obvious to you....and it was obvious to me. But it wasn't obvious to my Aspie, and he is a very smart guy with a lot of relationship experience. Go figure.



Well, I guess that depends on your definition of real commitment. I'm not talking about dating exclusively, I'm talking about the kind of commitment that grows from detailed knowledge (and ultimately, acceptance) of the other person, resulting in the decision that the relationship has long-term potential. My point is to contrast the idea that commitment is an emotional concept that can be entered into immediately, with the idea that it's a rational, informed decision. Relationships that are based on the former idea of commitment usually fail.



Look, it may be quite "normal" from your perspective, but I didn't have a clue. In the NT world, when you can't trust the words coming from a man's mouth, he's either a liar, a player, or both. I've been criticized by my NT female friends for entertaining the idea that this condition is legit (and I do consider it legit). Because many women have a problem with this (and I get that, because it's a whopper) makes it even more important that you discuss it. There are ways to work within that context, but if you don't know the context (or even that it exists), it's like having a pillow fight in a dark room.



Well, you may want to try looking for a different type of woman.....easier said than done.



Again, it's up to both partners to find a level of communication that works.

Toad, the Honeymoon usually comes first because it encompasses the initial attraction felt when people begin dating. I know your concept is different, but this really is the way it works for most people: you become attracted (for men, that's usually an immediate, visual, physical attraction; for women it can be the same, or it can be a more delayed, personality-based attraction); you realize you're both interested; you begin to date. The relationship is based on mutual attraction - you haven't had time to find out much about each other - and you're typically buzzed on all the romantic possibilities associated with the other person. Discovery is the phase that follows, because as you spend more time together, you learn more substantive information about each other.


I think the key is to find a level of communication that works for both partners. In my opinion, when one or both partners brings a significant issue to the relationship, both partners have to be committed to an increased level of communication if the relationship is going to survive.

If you want to date a NT woman, just remember one thing: She isn't as great as you think she is. In other words, don't put her up on a pedestal. I've met plenty of guys who say "Chivalry is NOT dead!" Wrong attitude man. As far as you are concerned, chivalry already had its funeral precession. Basically what I'm saying is that women don't want to be treated like a princess. Some do, STAY THE HELL AWAY. Women want to be treated like a person, not like an object of desire, because after all, women are people too. It took me a long time to figure all this stuff out, but you just have to be comfortable with yourself.

"She isn't as great as you think she is" - ummm, WTF? I don't understand your point, Captain_Kirk. Men shouldn't be polite? Men shouldn't cherish a woman? Don't you think it depends on the man and woman involved? I generally think being polite and nice are pretty much always a good idea.

Except for being barely 16 (I was 20) and her parents were divorced, my third ex (out of 5) was somewhat of an exception. Nevertheless, considering she was the only one to ever cheat me before breaking up and considering we stayed together for only 3 months, I do not tend to consider what I had with her as relevant as what I had with my other exes. Coincidence or not, but the relationship with the most neurotypical girl I've been with was also the least serious and shortest of all relationships I've had.



I think it's mostly a cultural issue. In my country, people who start a relationship at an early age usually first start dating, then they start seeing each other at least once a week for a few years, then they move in together and after yet another few years of living together they marry or get children (whatever comes first). Usually this is without a specific plan and a couple makes a decision to move on the next step for personal and subjective standards only.

When people are older than 25 they tend to skip half of the process and often move in together after a year or less.

You might think it depends on the social level I come from, but I've seen this both in upper-middle class and labor class families.



Correct. Unfortunately I've never found a partner willing to commit beyond what is in my opinion the very basic.



How can you enter a relationship without first agreeing on a few set of basic rules on flirting or going out with other people? Even for NT couples I can't imagine they don't discuss that sort of thing before they get involved in anything seriously....



You don't become best friends from day one. Similarly, you don't enter a long term relationship from day one. This sounds pretty obviously to me, but I must admit it probably wasn't that obvious when I was still a naieve 18-year-old virgin.



I can say that my brain works fast enough process most data at near realtime so I'm lucky enough not to have to use this trick, but I can imagine the impact it would have on a relationship. Nevertheless, in my experience sharing your Aspie traits is by no means sufficient to make her understand them. In fact, most people who know I have Asperger's keep telling me I'm not "independent" enough (meaning I have major problems with time management household wise) or that I shouldn't be so blunt in certain occasions even though they perfectly know it's caused by my Asperger's. And when I do mention it to them, they tell me I'm just looking for excuses not to do something about it. These sorts of arguments is the reason the woman I was with for 6 years eventually broke up with me.

Basically, many women seem to think like this : if you can't fill my place taking care of the children and the household if I ever get sick, I don't want you to become my husband.... regardless of whether or not they love you and regardless of whether or not there's actually a physiological explanation for your limitations. And that's biggest problem I've had in relationships so far.

But again, this may be a cultural issue.



Indeed ! And it's not like I'm very picky when it comes to women.



I'm working on that with my latest ex. Maybe if I give her a week or two more to let everything pass there still is a chance of getting back together. We still have contact via mail and MSN and we arranged to meet sometime in januari at a neutral location just to avoid pressure or negative memories of any kind interfering....

I think he's implying that most Aspie men tend to almost worship the woman the love and that to be able to actually make something work together you should avoid putting her on a pedestal and rather see her as an the flawed human being she is, just like everyone else.

Further, I also noticed that independent young women today often object to traditional chivalry except when it involves the man paying the check. Unless you really know what you're doing, I also suggest keeping chivalry to a minimum as long as that doesn't mean you avoid being romantic as well.

Being NT is no guarantee of being psychologically functional or moral.



Well, I said it was a very short and very intense relationship. But that's kind of the whole point of my post: my expectations regarding the development of the relationship (which is actually pretty typical of generally functional NT men and women) was not what he expected. So while we were experiencing an intense infatuation with each other and I was anticipating how great it would be to get to know each other better, he was evaluating me against a short list of relationship requirements that were non-negotiable, that I was not aware of, and that I didn't meet. Hence, the relationship was terminated, and my heart broken. Had I known the ground rules, I wouldn't have played the game...the only way for me to know that the ground rules were radically different was for him to tell me, and he failed to do that.



Neither one of us were 18-year-old virgins, either. To the contrary, we are both older, experienced people. Again, that's my point: since we were very compatible on a lot of fundamental levels and we were very attracted to each other, I expected us to get to know each other, and hopefully form a bond that would have led to a deep commitment to each other (which we would have needed in order to not only deal with the Aspie/NT aspect of the relationship, but also to cope with creating a blended family with our children - bonding with my daughter as a father, bonding with his children as a step-mother - and developing a productive co-parenting relationship with the mother of his children). We faced some challenges, but that's why a very fundamental commitment to each other was even more important....and there are no short-cuts to that kind of commitment - it takes time, and patience, and understanding.



Again, my point is that he didn't give me the chance to understand his traits. Unfortunately, if I hadn't taken the time to try to puzzle it out on my own, and summoned the courage to ask him some direct questions, I still wouldn't know about the nature of the trait that killed the relationship.

I'm sorry you've had relationships with women who valued your ability to get the dishes done over everything else you brought to the relationship - but that is not me. I was crazy about my Aspie - I couldn't wait to get to know him better, and I was prepared to deal with his limitations. From my own imperfect NT perspective, you have to be prepared to work to make any relationship succeed, you have to be prepared to fail at times, you have to be willing to prioritize the long-term objective of having a healthy, satisfying relationship and a healthy environment for your kids to grow up in over the difficulty caused by short-term obstacles. We just weren't on the same page there, and that's why we're not together.

You know HopeGrows, if you had read the whole post, and not just the first sentence, maybe you would understand my point. All I'm saying here is that if you treat her like a princess, she will act like a princess. I'm not saying treat her like crap, I'm just saying learn how to say no. Plenty of men don't know how to say "No, I'm not doing that for you" and she walks all over him. People are going to treat you exactly how you let them treat you. For example, if a woman lets a man walk into her house, drink all her beer and have sex with her and leave, he will keep doing that until he can't get away with it anymore. By the same token, if a man keeps doing everything a woman tells him to, but her gifts, let her make all the decisions, then eventually she will take advantage of him. Sure, it all depends on the person, everyone is different, but this is a general rule. Being nice is only one part of the puzzle. You have to be assertive, one thing most nice guys have trouble with.

Sorry if I'm coming across as a...you know. I'm still working on that balance of being blunt and being nice.

I'm just stressing how poorly I seem to get along with NT women in comparison with e.g. women with BPD or ADHD. It's quite annoying...



No offense, but he seems like an a**hole to me. I can't imagine I'd ever treat a woman like that.



You couldn't have guessed that and I would be seriously offended in your case (even as an Aspie). It reminds me of the reasons my exes broke up with me, though.



I'm just dieing to read/hear his side of the story

It usually starts out like this. First she whines about some insignificant little thing and you do not agree with her, after which she gives you the silence treatment for at least a few hours. Next time she whines about some insignificant little thing you just give in to her because you're not in the mood for the silence treatment again. And of course, all obtained rights are permanent. So when next time her demands are a bit more extreme, the same process will take place and as this process keeps repeating, she graduately takes control of the relationship and barely gives you any say, even though you started out at the same level.

The problem is it's usually too late when you realise you've been reduced to virtual slavery.

And yet, I still feel love for most of my exes