Question for GroovyDruid

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I would have sent you a PM, but I also wanted to see input from other members about this.

Tonight I was talking to a guy and a girl on campus who are going out, about romantic relationships. While GroovyDruid and David DeAngelo believe that a guy and a girl will "click" when they first meet, and that there are body language cues to watch for (both of which I strongly agree with), these people think none of that is true. They believe that relationships only happen when you're already good friends with someone, and that body language means nothing - not eye contact, not touch, not flipping of the hair, not tilting the head. They also believe that a guy should simply look for a friendship, and wait for the girl to declare that she likes him a lot and that she wants to date him before doing ANYTHING in the realm of kissing, holding hands, or going on a formal date. Supposedly, the guy is not allowed to do that. And these are both NTs - from this description it sounds like they're both clueless Aspies that haven't discovered body language.

GroovyDruid, my question is: Is there any validity to this, or are they as out to lunch as my gut feeling tells me? I thought that women exhibited certain body language when they are interested in a guy. I thought that guys were supposed to take some initiative in starting a relationship, particularly since some women would be nervous (as many guys can be) and need that kick-start from the guy. I thought it was okay to kiss early on. I thought that if you're meant to be, you'll "click" early on.

My feeling is that these people are trying to promote being a wuss. I do agree with them that it is important to prioritize to building a friendship with the girl, and not over-emphasizing the relationship part early on, as that does turn girls off.

After talking to them, I almost feel worse off.

Thoughts? Comments?

I look for friendship first, but only because I can't get a relationship any other way.

If I was to train myself in social cues related to relationships, that would be different - but I would actually like to think that the girl liked me for me, not because I gave off the right messages to attract her.

Just my 2c.

Girls should like you for you, but according to David DeAngelo, girls look first and foremost for those cues, not looks.

Sorry to disappoint you, but no matter what this David DeAngelo chap (whoever he is) tells you, there ARE NO rules to relationships...

Sure things sometimes show certain trends or whatever, but just because you read it in a book doesn't mean that everyone has to follow that particular pattern.

David DeAngelo's website is http://www.doubleyourdating.com. There are certainly no hard rules to relationships, but there are still guidelines that should be followed. For example, you don't just go up to a random girl and try to unbuckle her belt. And, women, like men, have common traits. The point of David DeAngelo is to increase probability of success; no guarantees of success.

Perhaps the picking-up of the cues is subconscious, and the couple you talk of just doesn't realize that they're sending and receiving these signals.

DON'T QUESTION THE CHARISMATIC LEADER!! !

This about sums it up, really.

PRINCIPLES exist in dating, meeting people, flirting, and love. But it's not an equation. Every situation is different, and must be approached in a new unit of time with a fresh viewpoint.

HOWEVER ... your friends were trying to go the other way and tell you the rules consisted of making friends and then allowing the relationship to develop. My thoughts:

"Friendship turning into love" works sometimes. It's a great way to get into a romance, because you know you LIKE the person, rather than just having a gravitic attraction from you hormones. I've had that happen and had it work. I've seen it work for others.

But that doesn't mean body language and training in romantic communication isn't important; because it still is. You have to be able to recognize that a romance is developing and behave accordingly. Otherwise, you frustrate the other person and cheat yourself out of a potentially great relationship.

I recommend that aspies become educated on body language, dating skills, the behaviors of the opposite sex, small talk, and all the other little skills, but not to make any of them a religion or a way of life. The education merely helps one to deal with a relationship situation when it arises, and that could be out of a long friendship, a one-night stand, or getting hit by someone's car and getting to know them afterwards (yes, this has really happened, too).

GroovyDruid has spoken.

Their arguments were weak, for they couldn't explain how many people I know in relationships got into them very shortly after meeting each other. I remember one girl I liked, I knew her for a year, then she met this one guy and boom, instant relationship. I've seen that scenario play out many times - in many cases, if it's going to be a romantic relationship, it's going to start as a romantic relationship. I agree that good, lasting relationships can develop after a friendship has been cultivated for some time, but it is by no means the only way to do it, and these friends of mine seemed to think it was a miracle that a lot of people I know get into relationships rapidly after the first meeting.

Now, in the case of this couple, they were friends first, and I've seen relationships that started as a good friendship that lasted two, three, or four years first. But that doesn't mean that their model applies to everyone.

(Hitler reference deleted, as I misinterpreted the original post)

Last edited by ELLCIM on 01 Apr 2006, 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

If you meant me comparing you to Hitler, I was actually comparing David DeAngelo to the leader of a nonspecific cult; as someone whose ultimate authority cannot be questioned under any corumstances, regardless of evidence given proving him wrong etc etc. You're not the first or the last to swear by him on these forums, you know.

I agree with you. Their model doesn't work for everyone, or even most people ... or even very many people.

As for those that seem to spring up very quickly ...

Appearances can be deceptive, particularly when you're looking at young people. Bluntly, a lot of relationships spring up not because two people are meant to be but because they complement each other's neuroses. From the outside, it looks like they've hit it off. But really, they are in lust or codependent. Such relationships happen often and blow apart with much noise and steam.

That's why older people encourage youngsters not to rush marriage: they have to get to know their own foibles first, so that they don't become an effect of them.

I agree. I've noticed in the last few years that a lot more people are getting married younger than they were in the 1990s, at least around here. There just seems to be more people getting married who haven't known each other all that long, which is more like what it was 30-40 years ago.