But I'm TRYING..

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OK, I have a situation and would really like other people's input on this. For those who don't know, I am dating a man with AS. We have been together a couple of years and live together. Communication is often an issue, which I try (and mostly succeed) to understand. I am extremely open-- him, not so much. Right now we are having an issue and I'd like some input.

Little background:

He doesn't read cues at all, and I don't expect him to. I tell him when I need reassurance and what things are reassuring to me. He forgets things ALL the time, which I can accept 90% of the time. The other 10% frustrates me to no end. I specifically ask him to let me know what his plans are. I make dinner every night and have the kids every night-- so it becomes important to me to know an approximate time he plans on being home. If he is stopping at the store, I may need something-- so ASK. If he is getting up early to go to work early, let me know the night before. Simple things like telling me what he is planning out eases my mind and my frustration. He is pretty much incapable of telling me anything else, so those things are really important to me.

The problem: he still doesn't tell me. When I ask him why, and tell him that it bothers me, he says things like "I didn't think about it." or "Well, you were talking about something else, so I didn't bring it up." Am I being unreasonable to expect these things (maybe I am!). So often when he says "I didn't think about it," I hear "I didn't think about you or your feelings." I do my best to believe his good intentions, but its very hard sometimes.

Each time I bring up that I really need him to do these things, he says "well I am trying." In my mind, how can you TRY to tell someone your plans? You either do it, or you don't. How is that trying??

Thanks for listening and for any thoughts on the topic. I am lost on this one.

As an Aspie I can say that he is being rather inconsiderate to you. Sounds more like he is using AS as an excuse to be irresponsible. There may be more to it but I am going on the information you provided.

I hear you. My husband forgets whole conversations. We have a conversation, we make a decision, I act on it and he wants to know what I'm doing that for. I say, remember I said this and you said that, and I said this and you said that? Oh, ya, I remember that now. It drives me nuts too because I remember EVERYTHING!

What you need to do is find some kind of reminder for him that fits into your life. Maybe you can have a conversation the night before about the plans for the next day. Make this your planning time so he remembers to tell you, and keep this time specifically for getting information about the next day. Maybe a day planner to write this stuff down in, and put reminders in that for what you would like to have done that day, and ask him to use it..help to remind him to check it every day at lunch and before he leaves work until it becomes habit. Maybe he can call you before he leaves from work, or you can call him at a certain time every day to see what he is planning for after work. Talk to him and ask him what would be a good reminder, or what can we do together to help with this communication gap. Have him give you some ideas and come up with something workable.

Most importantly, remember it really doesn't have anything to do with your feelings or needs, and him not caring. I KNOW it feels that way, and it's often hard to understand, but you have to keep reminding yourself of that. He is probably trying, he just can't remember. Simple as that.

Good point. I have a planner and have to write down everything that needs to be done.

It is certainly possible to try, if you find it difficult to communicate.
Otherwise no.

Your post reminded me of the concept of Executive Function. It was explained to me by an Aspie recently as:

"Executive Function is one of the Frontal Lobe's duties. It involves planning and carrying out series' of complex actions, like conceiving, designing and carrying out the construction of a building, or starting and running a business, managing a stock portfolio" - it even encompasses things like planning a dinner party.

Aspies can experience difficulties with Executive Function. I think NTs might think of it more in terms of structure (as in providing structure to the management of tasks related to work and daily living).

So it could be that your bf has issues in this area, and they kinda come out in areas like keeping to a predictable schedule. I think @MommyJones gave you some really good advice about how to add some structure to your bf's routine. He might also consider getting a watch with an alarm (or setting one on his phone) that will go off "x" number of minutes before he needs to leave the office in order to get home within whatever window you two agree to (in order to eat dinner as a family). If it's really just an Aspie characteristic, then agreeing to use different techniques to impose some structure should improve the situation. If he's resistant to the idea of imposing some structure, then there might be something else going on.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. You are not asking for very much and if he cannot remember the simplest of tasks, it's up to him to find a way to do so. Tell him to write it on his hand or something.

Personally, and I'm sure I'll be slated for this, I would give him a taste of his own medicine. Everything that he expects you to do or remember, mysteriously 'forget'. Also, next time he forgets to pick up stuff from the store or ask you, tell him 'what a shame, I needed eggs/milk/ cat food... now we can't have dinner...' (feed yourself and the kids beforehand).

He's part of a family unit, and an adult, so he should shape up a bit and act like one.

It's frustrating because we do have a lot of "reminders" set up for him. We have a calendar so our big events are on it (kids schedules, meetings, etc). The problems come in with the spontaneous things-- stopping at the store for example. And perhaps, I have just made it so easy for him with everything else. IDK.

For me, its such a connection thing. I accept that he doesn't talk about feelings well. Can't he at least talk about things that he actually does or is planning to do in a day?

Well....I guess the only thing you can do is to try to put some additional structure around his activities, and see if that makes a difference?

I understand your frustration - I really do, and clearly it's something that needs to be remedied. But if it this issue is really due to a nuance of his Aspieness (and I don't know that it is), then attaching an emotional "motivation" to his behavior won't solve the problem, and it's only going to make you angry. I'm sorry - I wish I had a better answer for you.

It sounds to me like you are an incredibly organised person but he i a person who does not organise or plan anythng. I know because my boyfriend is this way. He plans nothing ahead, he sort of lives in the moment. Which is cool at times- i admire it a lot, I wish I could stop plannng and worrying. But i can understand if you have kids a schedule is needed. So that would be a hard situaton.

Hi Michelle, I've been on both sides of this situation and it's really frustrating either way.

A lot of people here, myself included, have poor executive function. What this means is a thought will go through our minds like "ask my dw if she needs anything at the store." If we don't immediately write it down or take some other immense effort to make a mental note, it'll be driven out of our minds by the conversation we have a minute later, or the other things we have to do, so while we "remembered it," we don't remember it when it counts. And then it NEVER COMES BACK, as if it were never in our brain in the first place. Having poor executive function is like having a brain that isn't under control properly....it makes it hard to find the information you need when you need it. I've often asked someone a question when I had already learned the answer from them in a previous conversation, and as they told me the answer, I would remember the earlier conversation I had. Luckily enough, they didn't seem to remember having told me before, either, so they're usually not offended. Or I'll forget someone's on a diet and offer them ice cream, and only remember when they correct me. Retrieval problems are hard to figure out how to fix, and just effort isn't enough.

Another problem with executive function is we have trouble planning our day (or any multi-step activity, really) out in advance. Here's a hypothetical situation that might happen to us. I might be expected to pick something up for someone on the way home. On the way, I suddenly remember I need to go to the drug store and get some shampoo. But the line is really long so it takes longer than I expected to get out of there. By then I've forgotten about what I was supposed to pick up in the first place, and am driving on autopilot thinking about a problem I'm trying to solve. Then I suddenly realize what I was supposed to do, and turn around, and there's a huge traffic jam. After waiting it out a while and seeing it not get any better, I just cut my losses and go home. So I get home late, not having picked up what I was supposed to. If these things "happen to me" enough, I will learn not to predict timing too carefully in advance so I won't disappoint anyone--and then I'll seem flaky and hard to pin down.

We are generally overloaded just with our own schedules, and as much as we want to keep track of yours as well, we just can't. I myself can't memorize my own schedule for the day most of the time, and am constantly checking my calendar so I don't forget something. My boyfriend doesn't understand why I can't memorize his schedule, and takes it personally sometimes. The best I can do is just keep checking my calendar and keep asking him what he's doing. Hopefully if I make the effort to ask, it'll at least look like I care.

One thing that helps those of us with executive function is having really precise, simple routines that cut down on the amount we have to remember. The more we can rely on habit, the better. It sounds like you've already set up this sort of structure for your husband, which is wonderful. I'm not sure what else to tell you. I don't know if what I've just described explains your husband's behavior, and he could have a bad attitude and expect to be accommodated all the time as well...but it's something to think about. I wish you the best.

^^Mosaicofminds^^ Ditto, every word...

No, I don't think either of these things is the case. I think he's being non-confrontational. I think he has (or feels that he has) some reason to be hesitant about discussing even certain mundane things with you, probably because of some reaction he's had to deal with in the past.

He may not want to talk about his plans because he feels that if he does, you (or someone) will argue with him, or cast some sort of negative judgment on him for doing things the way he does.

Note I'm not saying that this is necessarily your fault, those of us who are neurologically incapable of following many of the 'normal' templates for behavior, get emotionally beaten down over a long period of time by being yelled at, insulted, berated and even punished because we do things differently than others do and sometimes it annoys the people around us no end that they can't seem to make us conform.

After awhile, you just learn that when you're about to do something that may get you scolded if anyone sees you doing it 'the wrong way', it's just best to keep your mouth shut and do it without announcing it. If you're lucky, by the time anyone checks up on you, it'll be done and there won't be anything for anyone to complain about.

As for not asking if anyone else needs anything before a shopping trip, I'm very guilty of this, too. Though I'm not the most spontaneous person in the world to be sure, sometimes getting lost in the crowd is a bit of 'alone time'. When I do go to the store for something, I'm generally a Man on a Mission - I know what I'm going for, and that's what I'm focused on. It rarely occurs to me to ask if anyone needs me to pick up anything.

Besides, I am not exactly intuitive about other people's preferences and I know I'm extremely picky about my own. I don't like to trust others to go out and buy things for me because they almost always get the wrong thing, or screw up the order somehow. So I tend to assume that other people would also prefer to do their own shopping. In fact I don't want the responsibility of buying your stuff for you, 'cause I don't want to listen to you complain if I get the wrong color.

I was married not too long ago, and I remember these as being the sorts of things that caused near constant friction. I can barely muster enough executive ability to carry myself from day to day. If you ask me to be responsible for you, too, there's going to be a burnout and a meltdown sooner or later. Remember the mature, responsible adult part of the Aspergian brain stops developing in adolescence. That's a key component of the disorder. When it comes to those aspects of daily life, you're effectively dealing with a 10-12 year old boy. When you look at it from that point of view, these things aren't so mysterious after all...

This rings so true with me.....


But this... This just frightens me, so much. I don't want to be someone's liability, I want to be the dependable rock. Auugh...

I will be contrarian and say, just from putting myself in his shoes, and I may be totally and completely wrong, that this might be too much intimacy and he might feel invaded. He may not feel like having an interaction at those moments, he may not like the mean of interaction (phone/text, etc) he may resent having to interact when he doesn't want to. So he just may not do it.

I say this because I lost a job a few months ago where my boss wanted me to call in every morning. I didn't originally agree to it and I couldn't accept it. I hate talking on the phone with a passion. It was an 'extra' interaction I didn't want. I just wanted to show up at a certain time and that be that. So I just refused to call, and eventually lost the job. I hated those interactions *that much*. I am just saying that in case for whatever reason he dislikes these interactions *that much* to risk losing you like I risked losing my job, and eventually did. The interaction felt invasive, the boss felt maternal to me, and I did not feel like an adult, I felt like a child that 'owed' someone and was 'owned' by someone. Just sharing this in case these might be some underlying issues for why he's not complying.

All of these responses are very interesting and thought provoking- thank you.

Willard-- I can totally get the negative response thing, especially for him. I can totally see that. When he does tell me things and I ask for more information (I am running to the store, for example) and I say something like "Oh, what are you getting?" out of curiosity, he feels like I am judging him or interrogating him. In my head, I am just asking for information and conversation, but I don't think he takes it that way. OTOH, if he is getting a negative response by NOT telling me, wouldn't he just change it? Or doesn't it work that way?

Alana- It could be that he doesn't want to interact at those moments, also. I don't know how I feel about that, though. He doesn't have issues using the phone or texting, so I don't think its that. However, I truly don't ask for a whole lot, so I don't know that I could accept one less interaction. Ugh. This is hard.

Mosaicofminds- Yea, he does forget everything. And honestly, most of the time it doesn't bother me. If I have asked him to grab something on the way home and I know he has left work, I will mention it again (most of the time, I just go get it). I don't expect him to keep track of my schedule, but I most definitely need to keep track of his for him.

This executive functioning thing is really interesting..and frustrating

My husband is exactly like this, and it took a long time for us to work through it. I would ask questions to clarify information and he would feel like I was drilling him, judging him or being critical and he would immediately get angry or shut down. Over time I have managed to convince him that I'm just trying to clarify and what he says isn't "wrong". We really talked a lot about this issue specifically, and even went to couples councelling over it. He is now able to talk to me without feeling that way because we understand now, but we also have been together for 16 years. Sometimes I still have to remind him that I am not drilling him, just trying to understand. Sometimes I just say that today is not the day for communication, and we wait until he is having a better day. It depends on how the conversation is going. Regarding your question about getting a negative response and changing because of that. I tried that, and all it did was reinforce his feelings and made it worse, because the negativity made him shut down even quicker, and then added resentment.