Do you ever feel...

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envy, jealousy, anger toward other people for their good fortune in dating? I see so many of my friends getting married, or in relationships, to beautiful girls, on top of having lots of friends and all that.

They're always so charismatic, and tall and handsome. Just to be clear, I"m straight, so when I talk about handsome, I guess I mean I see my male friends, and they have the kinds of looks and body types I wish I had.

I exercise, a lot, and yet I look in the mirror and see the same, scrawny, chicken-limped figure with ugly little hairs and no definition. And nothing will change my face.

As for persona, forget about it. I really try to make an effort to be the kind of person a girl could want: outgoing, charismatic, humorous, and it is all so much work! I feel like I'm not being myself, that I'm lying, and all the time I suspect even then, I'm still coming off as a completely worthless and uninteresting person.

And so when I see my friends who are seemingly blessed in every way, I get sad, jealous, angry, at them for their good fortune, at me for being such a poor example of a human being. I really wish there was a god, so I had someone to blame. Instead, I feel a freak of nature, just a random coupling of chromosomes.

Do others feel this way? Are we completely outclassed, hopeless, screwed over? Or have you found hope?

OP, I think what you're feeling is a normal reaction - it's hard to watch other people get what you want so desperately. I think the key to managing those negative feelings is to realize that the love your friends have been lucky enough to find doesn't mean there's less love in the world for you. In fact, you may even increase your chances of meeting a young lady, because your friends' wives and gfs have girlfriends, who have girlfriends....you know? An introduction to a friend-of-a-friend often results in relationships, so an increase of women in your social circle actually works in your favor.

Also, I seem to remember you posting a while ago about finding a monthly meet-up (art/wine....or something like that) with people in your age group that you really enjoyed. I think you also were a bit unsure of how to break the ice with people there (because lots of them were in groups of people they already knew)? I don't know if I said it at the time, but I think a good strategy is just to keep going back every month. After a while, you won't be a stranger, you know? You'll be that nice, quiet guy these folks see every month....and eventually, people will begin to nod when they see you, then speak....then become acquaintances, then friends. Keep going back, okay?

It's not the situation you are in, but the reaction you have to that situation that defines who you are.

You are in what seems to be a bad situation relationship wise. What you should do is focus not on what others have, but what you can do to improve yourself so that you can also attain nice normal relationships. There is a difference between not being yourself and being yourself while socializing in a way that NT's can understand. It's taken me years, but I've learned to socialize and talk to women without changing who I am at all.

If someone like me can date then I'm sure you can also. I'm short, have been chubby in the past, not athletic at all, and an incredible nerd. I enjoy almost every form of geekiness available but still managed to date 6 women in 10 years.

I have to say that I don't think it's fair of you to be jealous of your friends. You should be happy for them if they are really your friends. Have you tried asking the advice of your friends who have been more successful than you? I'm sure they could offer some good insight into the situation.

Personally I do believe in God, but I also believe in free choice and that if I make bad decisions I have no one to blame but myself. Sure I have some problems that are caused because of genetics but I feel like I've been blessed because I can have a different experience and different outlook compared to most people in the world.

Never outclassed, not totally screwed over, and full of hope.

I don't.

Yes, now and then. Does thinking about your appearance dominate your life? Might be Body Dysmorphia.

Yes, I've felt completely outclassed, and even undermined by their presence! One of my 2 best friends looks like a model, is outgoing and talkative, comfortable to be around, and otherwise charismatic. He takes all the attention when he's around. Heh, there have been times where he, I, and one other friend, have gone out to a bar and tried to meet women. However, he was trying to set us up for meeting women, trying to redirect attention from him and onto us.
It never worked.

Not only did I realize that he's a lousy, lousy, counterproductive, actively sabotaging wingman, but I also really resented that he hogged all the attention while actively trying not to. Furthermore, we'd only effectively get the women he wasn't interested in - We got his scraps, to be crass about it. However, in retrospect, he's the kind of guy where all this came innately - he didn't understand the underlying concepts of why he got the attention and not us, so there was no way he'd have known how to effectively divert attention. And back then I didn't understand either, so oh well.

But the thing is, he was such a good friend, that I couldn't hold much resentment toward him. I'm glad he had all that success, he frankly deserved it. A very good person - Well balanced, well intentioned, positive, light, forgiving, accepting. He was the model of what women wanted in men.

So I figured I oughta pay attention to him, and figure out what it was that he did that made him so great. I appreciated and emulated him, instead of resenting him. This difference in my response has made all the difference, as it contributed greatly toward my relative level of success that I've achieved nowadays.

Sometimes I'm around guys who, still, outclass me and get tons of attention, despite being less of a quality guy(to my measure). Yeah, I resent them a little, but on the other hand, now I understand why they get the response that they do. I can get all negative-oriented about it, but that will only hinder me, and help him.
Nowadays, instead, I get competitive. Perhaps that's not totally healthy, but I simply try to outperform him in the areas that I'm good at. He may have his strong points, but I have mine, and I try to focus on those.

That said I don't always avoid being resentful and negative. That's hard to do.

I can relate to Sound and the OP to some degree (although my wingman did his job correctly one night, to where something almost happened; I blew it later in the one-on-one phase).
Hope, your wine & cheese persistence strategy can backfire. I did become a regular at a couple bars and one or two monthly things - but first impressions matter a lot, so I wound up being "that creepy guy who doesn't talk to anybody". I was recognizable, but in a bad way.
All I can say to the OP is keep trying regardless of how hard or how often the negative feelings hit you. I suffered a long time but had a breakthrough eventually. It's hard to listen to advice to stay positive but Sound has the right idea, relentlessly working on your weaknesses and shamelessly imitating those more successful than you at the chosen game.

I do but not in the dating regard.

I get jealous of success in life, friendships and work situations, but never romantic ones.

Eh?
I thought you'd disagreed with me at one point on the 'self-improvement' bit?

OP, follow Hope's advice. I host a meeting one a month, go to other meetings once a month, and don't feel like I am a stranger to many of these folks. You'll be better off for it

I don't worry about whether or not about if other guys look like models or anything else. I don't compete against them, because I don't need to compete against anyone. I accepted awhile back that we are who we are. So, I'm never going to look like a muscular guy with a "six pack" in the middle. Big freakin' deal. Most model types anyway give the perception they are about "me, me, me." Might be some who are humble and such, but probably not many.

Well I know I've been depressed, jealous, and sad. Espcially when its ppl younger then me :'(

Naw, mostly because if they're happy, who am i to take that happiness from them? This rings most true concerning friends or people close to you.

Then again, i suppose i have a rather "average" look. So there would be hope yet for me. :p

I wonder what brings you to this conclusion? This may be a popular and comforting narrative, but it is not a good guideline to follow if accuracy is a concern.


Equating one's looks to the 'core' of who one is - akin to, for instance, one's values, beliefs and personality - is deeply flawed. "We are who we are" is not an excuse to shrug off one's health or a lack-luster visual presentation. The phrase is not even relevant; It's confusingly non-sequitur.


For one, so long as there is a comparative judgment process involved in attraction, then you are, indeed, embroiled in a competition, as a rule. That you choose not to pay attention to the competition is nice, but irrelevant to the discussion.
...Unless, of course, you genuinely don't understand the impact it has on your dating life.

One is afforded the luxury of not caring about their appearance when they are not amid a debt on feelings of romantic fulfillment, confidence, or validation. For the many guys in this forum, like the OP, who are developing an insecurity and anxiousness about their long-running lack of a relationship, it is very logical, rational, self-aware, and realistic to care a great deal about their looks. One very logically follows the other.

These guys are trying to solve a problem. Not caring about one's looks - a potentially critical contributing solution - helps nearly no one within the 'unhappy singles' premise. This is particularly true if one is still struggling to figure out how to improve their favorable behavior; Where social dynamics are incredibly complex, vague, and ambiguous, addressing one's looks is an extremely concrete, predictable, reliable step forward, in comparison. Moreover, addressing looks also serves to inject a significant measure of feelings of confidence. Two birds with one stone.

You're apparent suggestion - that one who is unsuccessful in attraction should stop caring about their looks - is astoundingly horrid advice.

Yeah, looks are important - not so much your genes but how you work with what you've got. Some people who are confident but not naturally good looking can be so sexy while someone with all the right raw material can be so ugly on the inside it ruins the view. I often find men in their 60s very attractive which I never would have thought possible when I was younger, but there's something wonderful about the confidence and ease that some men reach by that time. It's all in the mind. When I feel sexy I get lots of attention, but when I don't I get no notice.

But to the OP's original question, no I don't feel envy, anger, or jealousy when other people get the things I want. I'm usually pretty happy for them because the world's a better place when people do well. I don't want them to be unhappy. I also feel that my experience is exactly what I make it. For example, I don't like my dinky little salary, but I put myself in this job. I'm not going to worry about it too much though, I'm just going to change it. When I want something, I set my sights on it and get it. It doesn't matter too much if someone else got it first.

Very easy. Think what our society basis everything on. Youth and beauty (and lots of money).


I respect your opinion, but disagree with you.


Sorry bud, but I don't care what others think, attraction wise. Let people judge me by the way I look. I don't need anyone's validation to tell me how good looking I am or anything. The other day, a woman came by and told me I looked "cute" like many other women have in the past. So, as far as I am concerned, I don't need to compete against anyone.



Did I say anything about not taking care of myself? Not a single thing. I take care of myself. I don't have feelings of insecurity or anxiousness. I've got more going for me than a number of NTs do for them. Again if women are calling me "cute" and other terms, must mean I'm doing something right about taking care of myself.


Find where I have said this and quote me on it, word for word, please. If you can't, don't put words in my mouth.