you do not have to change who you are in order to get girls

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even beautiful women that look like they should be models at that.

All of you guys that are in decent shape (what I mean is slim, but if you're actually lean and muscular, all the power to you) could be almost definitely total players with women. I have piss poor social skills when interacting with large groups of people, but I am now pulling women out from my NT friends' grasp (not necessarily stealing them, but unintentionally attracting girls they wanted to hook up with but were too slow to act on) within a half hour of meeting them at social gatherings and making out with them in the same span of time. The two times this has happened, I bedded the girls the next time I met them.

Around this time last year, I was nearly suicdal because some girl rejected me after a first date. The reasons she did this are now startling obvious: I did not make direct eye contact with her, I held my body rigidly and awkwardly, walked with my hands in my pockets, talked about how I had no friends, and never touched her. She gave me three other dates, and guess what, I f****d them all up because I never did any of the aforementioned things. By the last one, I had finally started touching her. It was such an awkward jump for her to make from this friend guy to lover that she jokingly said something like, "you're like the rest of those guys, such a jerk" and refused to meet me again (obviously through polite doubletalk, not something blatant).

Well, last weekend was a testament to how literally everything about how I interact with girls has changed. I've now got something like an entire house full of super attractive girls that thinks I'm attractive for reasons unknown. I made out with a model yesterday (part of the aforementioned household), got her cute nerdy friend's number 20 minutes later in front of some girl that took my number a few weeks ago and some bisexual girl I got with the day before. The night I got physical with the bisexual, I met some gorgeous girl that's a linguistics grad student while leaving her alone for a bit at the party, but my phone didn't save her number and I don't remember her name, so that's not gonna be happening .

What I say is never anything flashy. This doesn't necessarily mean I'm not a huge nerd anymore, because I still am. I still have that underlying "differentness" that all people with an ASD have. I still don't get sarcasm or teasing. I don't get male-male eye contact because you shouldn't just lingeringly and directly look them in the eyes at all times because it looks like you're hostile to them (it's bizarre how girls interpret that same eye contact as romantic, which I have no problem doing within the first 5 seconds of meeting). I'm still kind of clumsy.

Anyways, guys, I see a lot of posts about being depressed about some woman (or lack thereof) in your life on here. Even if you got her, you'd still feel depressed for whatever reason. If someone told me I'd be having sex with gorgeous bisexual girls around this time last year (I pulled off two, what the f**k is going on), I wouldn't believe them and I'd think it'd improve the quality of my life big time if I did. Unfortunately, it doesn't. I still hate some important aspects of my life, my financial situation, and a lot of things about myself. I'm just not ashamed of showing my attraction to a girl that's interested now. I actually dislike the way I've become such a manwhore. I would much rather have a girlfriend that loves my nerdy side and can have some deep conversations with me. I have a candidate, but I have a hard time thinking she'd wanna be in a relationship with a guy with a legit sh***y life like me.

So one of the main things I think has kept me flying under the radar with all these girls and not being thought of as a player is that sort of innocent, boyish charm asperger's gives you. No matter what kind of sleazy s**t you do, girls will never suspect you're the kind of guy that sleeps around since innocent, even a bit awkward guys generally don't do this. Everything you do comes off as sincere even though she may have been the 20th girl you said whatever to. I sincerely do not recommend turning into a player, though. I think I ruined a great situation by just trying to impress myself by making out with that model who lives with the neuroscience girl where I think there is more than just physical attraction on both parts. There's nothing that will come out of hanging out with the model except probably good sex, but I've probably blown myself out of hanging out with both of them now since girls talk. So now, even though I have the innocent sort of thing going for me, they have proof that I'm not. I think all I can do now is play it off as being high at the time while making out with the model.

Anyways, treat girls how they treat guys, guys. You are evaluating them, and for god's sake do not get into pickup theory (mystery et al). You realize it's all total charlatan garbage. I've seen good looking, muscular guys scare women away by saying these BS playery routines and lines. The only thing it provided me was an impetus to approach random girls and from there is where I learned to see what the difference between an interested girl and disinterested girl looks like. After about 3 months of that, things are going to click, even if you've got asperger's. Provided that you're confident with direct eye contact, have a friendly but dominant tone of voice, dress well, are relaxed, smile a little bit, and hold yourself straight, you'll see that you can do almost anything around them and still not lose their interest. I s**t you not. I am doing all of that and I'm now outperforming neurotypical player friends that have hooked up with like 50 women, often stealing the girl's interest unintentionally right out from under them because I'm talking to them like a normal, albeit definitely nerdy, guy just being friendly and touching them.

Very well put!

Hehe, kinda a rambling post, but solid info once parsed. It's all about the physical contact. Glad you feel like you're seeing some success. But I don't quite see why you feel bad? Do you feel you're mis-representing who you are somehow? Why are you nervous about these ladies getting to know you? It seemed like you were just being yourself.

On a different note, I've got a little gripe about your thread title!
When you say "you don't have to change who you are," a bunch of guys will interpret that akin to "I don't need to do anything differently than I already do."
Doesn't exactly make sense, but that's what ends up happening...

In comparison, you saw a dramatic change in your life because you started doing things differently, things that were uncomfortable and difficult.

Mad props, btw.

And this is who you always were inside, then, and now you are living the dream?

There's this weird assumption I often see in this community, and I see it here too, that everyone with AS has a similar personality and image, and the same problems. I'm sure if the two of us went out to the same party the differences between us would be quite obvious, though I can't tell what they are from here.

In truth, I doubt that any woman will have me; I could travel the world and meet so many amazing women from so many cultures, but they would all react to me in the same manner.

I am beautiful but at the same time dirty and degenerate.

I am nearly gay except for the fact that I'm not attracted to men and fantasize intensely about women.

A girl wants me to speak a thousand words in her ear and buy her dinner in a nice place. This I can do, I have no problem with it. But if I must perform these rituals BEFORE she will let me hold her, or even just cuddle her for a bit, then sorry, no can do ... I am starving for your warmth and your love, and every minute that you hold it back from me I become more and more distant, and our dating sessions became all the more futile.

If you would but let me touch you gently first, then so much negative energy would be released, and then we could go to nice places to eat, watch movies together.

But no; I doubt you will ever have it that way, my dear lady, but I blame you not; sexual repression and morality are imposed upon our minds as children by those who hold the power over us.

Truly, the repression of love and affection in the early years of school makes a cold monster out of so many of us.

(Content removed - M.)

I hesitate to respond to your @DavidM, but you bring up another variation on a theme that's I've been reading quite a bit lately here: inappropriate expectations about dating.

Yes, typically you have to date before a woman will allow you to touch her. That's the way it works. You can reject this social construct by saying, "no can do," but all you're going to achieve is to ensure that you never get what you want: a physically affectionate relationship with a woman. It's tantamount to saying, "But I want to drive when the light is red, so that's what I'm going to do." And you can do that - you can drive when the light is red - but at the very least you'll probably cause accidents, and kill/injure yourself and others. And what will you have achieved? You're not going to get to the place you wanted to go, are you?

Nobody gets to define their own norms for social interaction. They are norms - they are accepted by society as a whole. That means if you want to succeed, you play by the established rules or you don't play. Cause if you decide to play by your own rules, you're going to fail. It has nothing to do with sexual repression and morality, either. We don't allow strangers to help themselves to our bodies because each individual has the right to decide who gets to touch them. It's personal freedom.

So you can expect a woman to willingly agree to be touched, fondled, etc., before you've even bought her dinner, but since that is not the way our society works, your expectations will not be met - you're not going to get to the place you wanted to go.

I must beg to differ, HG - I have not found this to be true. I have never played by standard dating rules, and I scored like a rock god. As long as you treat people with common courtesy and respect and don't come off as needy and desperate, it's really not that tricky. It's the initial hurdle of getting past that overwhelming insecurity that's hard, especially for Aspies.

I do believe for people with AS it is more awkward and the learning curve is longer, but the hopeless whining I often see here does become tedious and annoying. Being a virgin at 17 is not a death sentence. There are more important aspects to burgeoning sexuality than how soon you get started, guys - better to be a virgin than a lousy partner.

I am curious about this. In your exprience, you have found that you can get close and fondle a woman before you offer anything up? No date, no nothing? I find that fascinating.

But @Willard, you're like a rock star - you can't be compared to mere mortals, you sexy beast. Seriously, though - I know what you're saying, and I know it worked for you - but ya gotta admit, you had some special circumstances (and I give you snaps, because you created those circumstances, but still - pretty special). Don't you think the rest of us "straights" have to consider playing by the rules? We're talking about buying a lady dinner - not a condo, or anything.

(Removed - M.)

Not all women need to be bought dinner. There are party girls. I hardly went on any dates n my 20s. in fact in my country dates are not such a formalised thing.. most of my boyfriends arose from male friends and they never took me on formal dates.

oh this guy is so full of it, but the theory is sound. all these things that woman claim to want is complete and utter crap. i stand by the idea that any man can get any girl he wants. take that how ever you want to take it sex or love anything in between. you just need to find what works for you and play your strengths. if you are unattractive and poor with social situations you will not get the slu*ty chick at the club, but across town there is a woman of equal attractivness reading and educating herself wanting someone to love her for her mind.

dont confine yourself to bars and clubs for women, they are literally everywhere

*shrug* It may not necessarily be BS, it's quite feasible if he's in his early 20's, isn't overweight, has spent a lot of time reading on the pick-up community writings, and then actually followed through with 'missions.' It yields a big perspective shift.
Despite the pitfalls intrinsic to the PUA mindset, and some of the silly gimmicks, a whole lot of pick-up derived knowledge works extremely well at what it attempts to do, especially the 'basics,' like thinking about women as people instead of princesses to be coveted. This is especially true for individuals who actually go out, and try to put the new found ideas into action.

I believe him. I've seen other people gain social success fairly quickly, so I don't see any reason why his story is unfeasible.

If it's the combination of social success and AS that makes you skeptical, then consider that your biggest barrier might be a mentality of disability.

This is true, but it represents 'running' when for a lot of guys, the current goal is 'walking.'

In music theory, there's a common saying - Something to the tune of, "You aren't bending the rules if you don't know them." In this sense, if you know how the 'standard dating rules' work, and (more importantly) have successfully figured out what it means to be not-needy(etc), then yeah, the 'rules' don't matter quite so much.

Unfortunately, that's a big perspective shift that guys like DavidM have not achieved yet. An attempt to 'bend the rules' will be haphazard, with mixed results at best, usually. And perhaps worst of all, there's little context available to accurately figure out exactly what worked or didn't work, and why. Without 'knowing the rules,' you can repeat the same errors over-and-over, thinking you're doing things that should help you.

Indeed, that's what most of the social-failure on this forum represents: A misunderstanding of the 'norms' and expectations.