Non-sexism mindset in guys is not an add value (sadly).

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I am a weird member,

with weird threads to remember,

my freaky face makes you tremble,

and my farts sound like a battle

I am....the face of boo! And I howl like Dr. whoo!


*ehem*


......
.......

Wait....

what was my thread I wanted to post about?? *scratching had*

Ahh , got it ! Damn it , my mind is always distracted by other things! ok here we go:

The title itself is a conclusion out of my personal observation (and my personal experience).

I often witnessed here an argument , usually posted by female users , when some male whiner makes a sexist comment.

The argument goes like "No woman would approach you because you are sexist".

Theoretically , sexism must be a major unattractive trait in a guy , it should be even a major turn-off for 99.99% of women and it should not be compensated by any other quality. Theoretically, all sexist guys must die alone, unmarried.

However, reality doesn't really reflect that.

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First, I am a male (no?) living in a third world country (don't ask where, I won't tell) , my mentality fluctuated a lot during my life , going from a non-sexist mentality to what I call it today sexist mindset and ending up to a pro-feminism/pro-equality.


I was raised in a family of two working parents with almost equal wages (father: employee, mother : high-school math teacher) , in fact, mom always earned even a little more despite the age difference. This is very unusual for the married couples of the same generation of my parents ,at least where I live.
However, this really didn't prevent traditional gender roles in my family , mom was always the one who cooked most of the time (but when dad "cooks",it's a hunger day!). About 60% of housework are done by mom , 20 % by sis =p , the only thing dad was good in was smoothing clothes and washing dishes =p . Me? A lazy boy , I was, my share of work wasn't used to exceed my tiny room =p and when i was asked to do something more, i crawl on my back and pretend death O_O .

I was in a secular 'mixed' school (2 genders together) , one-gender catholic (usually directed by nuns or monks) and islamic schools were very common back then in my country.



In sum, I had what I call today a sexist typical guy mindset, like when being a lazy boy to leave the housework to my sister and other similar attitudes that I wasn't aware of their sexist nature.

Then I had even a more sexist attitude during a short time of early adulthood (~20-23?), after failing in having any gf. However , realized later that I was just bearing some grudge against women , blaming women for my *own* failures while it was me (and still me till this moment) not them , but I was in denial.


I was bit religious, but never studied my religion deeply. I only decided to read it deeply since September 11 , read the book from cover to cover in two languages, the explanations , the life of the prophet . The amount of unbelievable sexism in that religion was even far too much for my mind (which was a bit sexist) to process, it was refuted by my mind , couldn't accept it , and it was the "trigger" that pushed me toward more and more agnosticism till I ended up as atheist.

In parallel, without going too much in details here, I've contacted online and offline feminist and pro-equality communities , little by little I've became more ....what we call, pro-equality? even pro-women's rights. Today, I cook, i do housework and hate gender roles , far less macho.
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About 5 years ago I've became totally pro-equality despiting all the sexist attitudes i had in the past, even minor ones.

However, and here starts the real core of the thread, that really did no difference when it comes to dating. I've always witnessed the most sexist guys been always in relationships since ...ever. Many of my male coworkers have traditional sexist mindsets yet are married , and many of the female coworkers have husbands and bfs with that same mindset.

I even noticed that the most 'ladies-man' men usually have the worst sexist mindsets, treating their dates as sex tools. It's not like it's written on their foreheads but their sexist behaviors and words are very obvious. Many of those metrosexuals are utterly machos ...and sexist.

I usually say my opinions out loud, my liberal opinions, however this doesn't seem a major asset that impress a girl.

Meh, I swear , that guys who say out loud the most sexist opinions , like how women are the ones supposed to cook , and how women should be obedient , and what women should wear , and what women's roles in house ...etc etc etc, - are in most successful long-term relationships.

But don't worry, I am what i am now and not returning backward to being sexist.

Just wanted to point that "No woman would approach you because you are sexist" argument isn't true. Some sexist guys are attractive and desirable and always can have gfs easily, some non-sexist guys can be also attractive and desirable and get gfs so easily. Some sexist guys are not desired as much as some non-sexist guys.

The sexist/non-sexist thing doesn't make much difference....

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 10 Jul 2010, 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

It would kind of depend on your motivation for being 'non-sexist'. If it's just to get girls, then yeah, that probably comes across to some degree.

If you genuinely believed in equal rights, then it wouldn't matter what the personal pay-off was, you'd still believe in the idea.

If you just see it as a 'brownie point' to attract women, you may as well not bother. Whilst I respect guys who are egalitarian a hell of a lot more than sexists, someone simply telling me they believed in women's rights would not make me automatically want to date them. I imagine a lot of other women would feel the same (could be wrong...)

No , no and no! Re-read the thread. Gawd, getting a gf isn't the only thing in life , you know.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 08 Jul 2010, 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think some women are just desperate to "have a man" while others have standards. And as some guys are sexist and others are not, it (along with many other factors) affects what kinds of girls that attract.

True that, but also a guy being sexist doesn't also automatically means he's a dating failure.

Right, so going by that theory, women who are desperate to have bf's don't have any standards? Bit of an unfair assumption that.

The problem I find with my generation (although culture plays a massive part in this is as well) is that the more you give, the more they will take. I'll try explain with the following.....

Example 1) A man has an out of date stereotypical attitude regarding what men and women's roles should be etc, the woman will search for equality until she gets the same treatment and respect.

Example 2) A man does not have an out of date stereotype outlook of gender roles. At first the woman appears to respect and appreciate this. But slowly overtime she will use this to her advantage and seek to have everything in her favour.

Now there is a major difference between seeking equality and a level playing field (which I have no problem with) and wanting everything your own way. Unfortunately too many women (of the 18-30 British generation, can't speak for other cultures) use the former as justification to try and claim the latter.

I don't agree with sexist attitudes at all, but by not having one you are running the risk of someone trying to use you as a doormat.

That attitude I have noticed in the US as well, same basic age range even, could even push it to early 40s sometimes.

There's no need to be rude. I apologise if I missed something; it was a long thread and if you had a point, you could have done with being clear from the outset.

Without studying it in great detail, I read it that you appeared to be saying that guys may as well be sexist since being egalitarian doesn't get them girls.

My argument is whether that is true or not is irrelevant; if you are truly non-sexist, you are because of your moral beliefs not because it gets you laid.

I agree with this. It's on of my relationship fears that since I have a tendancy to avoid conflict I'll become a doormat.

Plenty of women are sexist themselves - they just see themselves as an exception to the multitudes of inferior women around them. And some women (and men) are desperate and will date anyone who pays attention to them. Not hard to imagine that sexist men could get relationships with women at all.

Women go for sexist men for many reasons.

1) The men aren't usually sexist in FRONT of them
2) Often the woman is too ignorant or stupid to know what he is truly like
3) He has other alpha male qualities they go for
4) He gives them a challenge to keep up with.

I honestly cannot say that many women look at a guy and say "Wow, he's sexist, man, thats so hot". Its likely that they have him for other reasons and sexism just comes with the package.

That's a very valid point. When I was in an all-male workplace (except for myself), they would quite often forget I was there and many of the 'charmers' would be the ones to make the most disgusting misogynistic jokes. They would be unprovoked (i.e not in fitting with a current converstation) and most of the time they weren't even slightly witty. Just crude and getting away with it because of alpha male status.

You learn to spot them after a while; they're the ones who treat women and men as different species when they encounter them. Even if it's 'preferential' treatment, it's still a warning sign in my book. If I hadn't had the work experience, I think I probably would have fallen for it, but these days 'gentlemen' like that make my skin crawl, and I stay well clear of the 'alphas' or wannabes.

By the way, I'm not talking about guys who are genuinely respectful to both genders and treat them the same; they're usually ok. Sometimes they'll act macho and join in with the guys for appearances, but there is a difference between an act put on occasionally for the lads, and day-to-day deceit you encounter from some of these creeps.

Its usually pretty easy to spot a charmer and it never works with me unless they're very good at it.

The reason these men get women is because they know how to charm them. Many people cannot see through it.

Some ways to spot a sexist charmer include:

Being overly and very obviously polite to a female.
Speaking in a different tone of voice to a woman than they usually do

Thing is, I've seen these guys in action and i've seen them behind the scenes. I have worked in a male dominated place and don't stand out as I tend to go to work with messy hair and old shorts and t-shirts so I tend to get treated like one of the guys, they are sexist to me too but they don't seem to care about masking it as opposed to an attractive looking woman or one they didn't really know.

The most sexist, disgusting pigs are the ones who appear polite and caring in front of the woman. One got a phone call from his GF and his tone of voice changed immediately.

I have NO time or respect for these sort of men. At least if a man is a sexist pig behind the scenes and in front of you, he's showing his true colours, not pretending to be respectful in front and then being sexist behind the scenes.

Ugh. The worst type.

To be as concise as possible: its the same reason guys date some of the pieces of work that they do. Quality of genetic 'specimin' and alpha gender roll behavioir/appearance (masculine/feminine) trumps all of this and sadly these secondary characteristics seem to even be fed by small amounts of gender antipathy. That's not to say that an outright mysogenist/mysandrist will typically do well, just that if they have enough sense not to be outright and blaring trumpets on the issue around the opposite sex it'll typically fly under the radar for the most part. With whiners, on the other hand, the biggest problem remains that they're whiners. If a guy happens to be very liberal or PC - its likely that he may be, intentionally or unintentionally, burying a lot traits that define him as male in the classical sense.

Part of it boils down to confidence I would say. A sexist guy will project more confidence around women and there is a reason. Because he does not respect women, he does not get nervous around them like a non sexist guy who finds a woman physically attractive. This projects as confidence if the sexist guy tries to hide his sexism when around the woman.

Whether this is real confidence or not, what matters is the appearance of confidence. And being sexist helps with that. Trying to fake sexism won't work, you have to be a true sexist that tries to hide it so that the lack of respect that prevents nervousness looks like confidence.

I have seen many women land some pretty horrible guys this way.