Shy guys.

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I think the shy, inexperienced, clueless guys on here are not taking advantage of the internet.

And I'm not just referring to online dating.

Shy guys are at step one, the first level, whatever you want to call it. They need WHATEVER experience talking to women they can get, even if that's just chatting on aol instant messenger and getting to know what women are all about and learning how to communicate with them effectively.

Shy guys also have the benefit of being able to talk to hired guns (hairdressers, hostesses, waitresses, bartenders) and just making conversation. Even if you screw up, they're still going to be nice to you, and you'll be able to tell when you're effectively making good conversation and when you aren't.

Get rid of that idea of finding a hot, smart girl that understands you, at least until further notice. Instead, talk to any woman you can talk to, improve your conversational skills with them (on and offline), learn about how they think and what they want and what attracts them.

If you're gung-ho on finding a girl to date or take it to the next step with, completely get rid of any standards you have and date that chubby nice girl in your class that would kill for a date with you. You aren't any better than her even if you think you are. Or go online and go on a date or hang out with any girl that agrees to it that isn't certifiably insane (i.e. belongs to a cult.)

There's no easy way to the top. No cute woman is going to "give you a chance" just because you don't have a criminal record and you're a "good person."

If you want a quality girlfriend, you have to become a quality guy...a guy that women would want to brag to their friends about. Women don't want a shy guy who has no idea how to talk to them, and has boring interests. Shy/clueless/boring is pretty much the equivalent of Oprah to guys.

So stop whining, start doing. You aren't entitled to anything.

Uhuh and you're an honest player

Hate all you want, but shy wussy guys don't get women, guys like myself do.

I think the talking to any girl that's up for talking to you is a good idea. I've often seen posts about being clueless about girls, needing female input, etc and thought I wouldn't mind talking to them but I hesitate to volunteer because sometimes guys here will quickly jump on a girl (Also because often people ask for advice and don't want to take what advice is offered to them.)

I actually like shy guys, but not wussy guys.

I don't think there is a shy/extroverted dividing line. There are levels of the aforementioned traits..
I don't know about "wussies" but guys who are initially quiet usually make me glad I've taken the time to get to know them.
It just seems to me that when it comes to the more brash variety of dudes, what you see is what you get. Which may not always be a bad thing, but a little depth is always nice..

im somewhere in between.
no afraid to start a convo, but once things get a bit more serious i trip a bit

Yeah, shy wussy guys who fall off bicycles at 20+mph going through a turn on gravel and stand up and laugh about it. Girls don't like them.
Tough guys who talk s**t on the internet about how tough they are and how they are living oxymorons get all the girls

I don't see being shy as such a huge drawback, aside from missed opportunity. When you don't even try to talk to the girl you want, that's when you screw things up. The women who wouldn't date someone just because they need time to open up aren't worth getting to know, at least to me. Shallow people like transparency, and deep people enjoy a good mystery and typically enjoy getting others to open up (assuming they're not bitter). Me personally, I love chatting up shy girls, even if they're two or three times as shy as I am. There's something very rewarding about helping someone who feels like they can't open up, open up. I'd like that same mindset in a woman. Says a lot about a person.

A girl could be smoking hot and still be less attractive than doggy doo if she has the wrong personality.

I've realized that women are a lot different online than they are in real life. You only see what they say, not what they do. It is my experience that girls act nice but are really only trying to bait someone into being manipulated, especially if it's a shy guy. I know guys do this too; guys manipulate girls for sex while girls manipulate guys for money and power. That may sound like a cynical and misogynistic viewpoint, but it is what I've experienced.



I don't want them to be nice to me. I don't want them to be fake polite just because it's their job, or because I have something that they want. I want them to be honest with me, respect me, and value me for my good qualities, not just because I'm a chump who will give them money to support their drug addictions, their illegitimate children, or whatever.



I don't think anyone, male or female, will ever understand me. Even I won't. In a way that's a good thing because I think most people if they had a full picture of what really goes on in my mind would probably hate my guts. From the outside I look like a contemptible, socially awkward nerd. Inside I am an evil, paranoid, confused, misanthropic lunatic.



I would like to date a girl who is kind of fu¢ked up, just like me. By that I don't mean troubled (pregnant, crackhead, etc.); I mean crazy.



"Good person" never made anyone more attractive. What is a good person anyway? Is it someone who behaves ethically? Someone who is generous? Someone who stays out of trouble and doesn't do drugs and stuff? Someone who is kind and sweet and caring underneath it all? I am none of these, except for possibly the last one. I know perfectly well why no girl gives me a chance at dating her. It's because I'm pimple-faced, I act immature, I have poor hygiene, and I'm just an overall loser.



What is it that women find boring anyway? I have never been able to figure this out, since no one has really made it clear. It has been established that "Nice Guys" are boring. But what about computer geeks like me? I suppose I would be considered boring by a girl who isn't into computers. I don't know.

ghost, I couldnt agree with you more.
shy girls tend to be very intresting!

crazy women, also tend to be shy there lordofthemonkys!

crazy gals, [without issues, just akward] are always best

Relax, buddy. Stop being defensive. Lashing out isn't going to get you where you need to be.

I talk to anyone who wants to talk to me but for some rezone most of the people who want to talk to me are homosexuals who want me. For some rezone lots people tend to think shy guys are gay or the shy guys freak women out; I do anyways. Women seldom reply to my message even on non dating sites. The only people who want to talk to me do it on forums. How can I talk to women online when women avoid me like the black plague And the few women who do want to talk to me; only want to talk to me when they are having a crises & when I want to talk; they are never around

I can agree that subjecting yourself to conversation can help tremendously with dispelling the notion of women being mythological creatures. I've gotten quite a few female friends recently as well (unfortunately, most of the ones close to me in age live far away now). And yes, it did finally land me a girlfriend. However, it's here where your mileage may vary. In my experience, the relationship only proved that I am a complete failure at relationships. At least I can still make friends though...

However, one of you guys might have more luck at it than I did. So yes, talk to women, I can definitely agree with that. For starters, talk to women well outside any conceivable age range as you (especially older). Learn to be able to interact well with those types of people, and then eventually that can translate into interacting better with women inside your age range.

i find that i have the same issues.
the best way ive gone to get around that, would be to get to know them in person, and force yourself to take the initial social risk. sometimes it will work and you can talk to them. when they see that you are a nice guy and reliable, they will want to talk more....but again, that all depends

@ OP
umad? lol

The f**k?

Oprah would be a pretty big catch. She's only worth how much?