Conservative, traditionalist countries and regions

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Keeno
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27 Jul 2010, 6:04 pm

I have long felt I fit in better and seem to be better accepted by conservative, traditionalist women. And feel more excluded by liberal women. A thought struck me today as to one possible reason why Aspies, especially when incel or even love-shy like me, may be in that situation.

I especially have in mind sexual conservatism/liberalism - how much openness about sex there is. If a society is liberal - especially sexually liberal with much sexual openness, I suspect it's made harder for incels. This would be because where people are very open about sex - there's more openness about people's relationships/sex lives, that everyone should be in relationships or having sex. And opposite to a more sexually repressed society where openness about sex can be seen as deviant - in the more sexually free society, it's NOT having a relationship or romantic life that's seen as deviant. In such a society the incel is then vulnerable to being identified as deviant. And they can be easily labelled... you know what I mean... by conjectured sexual explanations for the person's lack of sexual or romantic relationships.

Maybe, on the other hand, it's not as big a deal in a society that's more sexually repressed?

How true do you think this is?



Tim_Tex
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27 Jul 2010, 6:26 pm

Are you talking about politically conservative or sexually conservative?


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Keeno
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27 Jul 2010, 8:14 pm

Above all else, I mean sexually.



nara44
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27 Jul 2010, 8:47 pm

Keeno wrote:
I have long felt I fit in better and seem to be better accepted by conservative, traditionalist women. And feel more excluded by liberal women. A thought struck me today as to one possible reason why Aspies, especially when incel or even love-shy like me, may be in that situation.

I especially have in mind sexual conservatism/liberalism - how much openness about sex there is. If a society is liberal - especially sexually liberal with much sexual openness, I suspect it's made harder for incels. This would be because where people are very open about sex - there's more openness about people's relationships/sex lives, that everyone should be in relationships or having sex. And opposite to a more sexually repressed society where openness about sex can be seen as deviant - in the more sexually free society, it's NOT having a relationship or romantic life that's seen as deviant. In such a society the incel is then vulnerable to being identified as deviant. And they can be easily labelled... you know what I mean... by conjectured sexual explanations for the person's lack of sexual or romantic relationships.

Maybe, on the other hand, it's not as big a deal in a society that's more sexually repressed?

How true do you think this is?


IMHO What makes aspie situations uniquely difficult is that we are both conservative and liberals
Many introverts are
At least I've been told that this is one of the aspects that's so confusing about me as on most issues i'm lefter than the left,
i'm practically anarchist
but on personal matter such as relationship with the other sex i'm holler than the pop,i'm monogamous to the bone
to me there is nothing confusing in this mix and it is make a perfect sense and those seemingly opposing views actually complement each other very nicely but most people find it very odd
most people find aspies very odd anyway
perhapses because we represent what seems like strange and even impossible set of views
i think it's one of the benefits of being wired differential and in many ways the ability to live creatively and openly stem from the ability to wire together the seemingly contradicting aspects of reality.



Bethie
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28 Jul 2010, 10:33 am

Keeno wrote:
I have long felt I fit in better and seem to be better accepted by conservative, traditionalist women. And feel more excluded by liberal women. A thought struck me today as to one possible reason why Aspies, especially when incel or even love-shy like me, may be in that situation.

I especially have in mind sexual conservatism/liberalism - how much openness about sex there is. If a society is liberal - especially sexually liberal with much sexual openness, I suspect it's made harder for incels. This would be because where people are very open about sex - there's more openness about people's relationships/sex lives, that everyone should be in relationships or having sex. And opposite to a more sexually repressed society where openness about sex can be seen as deviant - in the more sexually free society, it's NOT having a relationship or romantic life that's seen as deviant. In such a society the incel is then vulnerable to being identified as deviant. And they can be easily labelled... you know what I mean... by conjectured sexual explanations for the person's lack of sexual or romantic relationships.

Maybe, on the other hand, it's not as big a deal in a society that's more sexually repressed?

How true do you think this is?


This is a very interesting point. I don't think one's political tendencies have much to do with one's romantic/sexual tendencies.
For example, I'm a "flaming" liberal but find myself very alienated by the left's "anything goes" take on sexuality. I'm extremely conservative when it comes to relationships, sex, clothing, etc- more like a fundamentalist Christian type. I hadn't thought that it might be AS-related.



Tim_Tex
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28 Jul 2010, 10:34 am

Bethie, I am pretty much the flip-flop opposite.

I am a fiscal/foreign policy conservative, as well as a Christian, but sexually, I can be quite kinky.


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Keeno
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28 Jul 2010, 11:00 am

nara44 wrote:
IMHO What makes aspie situations uniquely difficult is that we are both conservative and liberals
Many introverts are
At least I've been told that this is one of the aspects that's so confusing about me as on most issues i'm lefter than the left,
i'm practically anarchist
but on personal matter such as relationship with the other sex i'm holler than the pop,i'm monogamous to the bone
to me there is nothing confusing in this mix and it is make a perfect sense and those seemingly opposing views actually complement each other very nicely but most people find it very odd
most people find aspies very odd anyway
perhapses because we represent what seems like strange and even impossible set of views
i think it's one of the benefits of being wired differential and in many ways the ability to live creatively and openly stem from the ability to wire together the seemingly contradicting aspects of reality.


You're absolutely right, at least as far as my own experience is concerned. Similarly I am very politically liberal and very socially (or at least sexually) conservative.

There's a test online which consists of a personality test (Big 5/OCEAN) but also with it is a test of both political and social conservatism/liberalism. And I scored almost off the scale politically liberal, and almost off the scale socially conservative. I posted the results on WP, but had more extreme scores than anyone else.

Yet it's not just me, it's probably the more independent, self-reliant Aspie in general, as I know a number of Aspies who seem to fit this politically liberal, socially conservative pattern.

I have been suspecting for a long time that conservative women are best for Aspies and maybe this is one reason why.



RICKY5
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28 Jul 2010, 3:02 pm

We are really talking about is how technology and political culture affect hypergamy in the sexual marketplace in different countries.

In the western world, due to the prevalence of effective birth control, women working, divorce laws.

Aspies tend to disproportionately display beta provider traits that women without constraints on hypergamous traits (social shame, pregnancy, disease risks,etc) don't find attractive.



Dilbert
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28 Jul 2010, 3:03 pm

Iran?

Saudi Arabia?



Bethie
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28 Jul 2010, 3:13 pm

RICKY5 wrote:
We are really talking about is how technology and political culture affect hypergamy in the sexual marketplace in different countries.

In the western world, due to the prevalence of effective birth control, women working, divorce laws.

Aspies tend to disproportionately display beta provider traits that women without constraints on hypergamous traits (social shame, pregnancy, disease risks,etc) don't find attractive.


Very interesting. What's your take on female Aspies in the same context, then?



RICKY5
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28 Jul 2010, 4:21 pm

Bethie wrote:
RICKY5 wrote:
We are really talking about is how technology and political culture affect hypergamy in the sexual marketplace in different countries.

In the western world, due to the prevalence of effective birth control, women working, divorce laws.

Aspies tend to disproportionately display beta provider traits that women without constraints on hypergamous traits (social shame, pregnancy, disease risks,etc) don't find attractive.


Very interesting. What's your take on female Aspies in the same context, then?


95 percent of female "game" is based on looks. Aspie women (decent looking) will have a much easier time getting a boyfriend than aspie men would.

Keeping the boyfriend and not getting used would be the biggest challenges aspie women would face.



Bethie
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28 Jul 2010, 5:39 pm

RICKY5 wrote:
Bethie wrote:
RICKY5 wrote:
We are really talking about is how technology and political culture affect hypergamy in the sexual marketplace in different countries.

In the western world, due to the prevalence of effective birth control, women working, divorce laws.

Aspies tend to disproportionately display beta provider traits that women without constraints on hypergamous traits (social shame, pregnancy, disease risks,etc) don't find attractive.


Very interesting. What's your take on female Aspies in the same context, then?


95 percent of female "game" is based on looks. Aspie women (decent looking) will have a much easier time getting a boyfriend than aspie men would.

Keeping the boyfriend and not getting used would be the biggest challenges aspie women would face.



"Attractive people get more dates" (the gist of your post) applies to both men and women, Aspies AND NT's.

I was more asking for an opinion with regards to average female Aspies best chances for dating success and happiness in the context of conservative vs. liberal partners. The same vein as before, only with women.

Never mind. :D



nara44
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28 Jul 2010, 6:35 pm

RICKY5 wrote:
We are really talking about is how technology and political culture affect hypergamy in the sexual marketplace in different countries.

In the western world, due to the prevalence of effective birth control, women working, divorce laws.

Aspies tend to disproportionately display beta provider traits that women without constraints on hypergamous traits (social shame, pregnancy, disease risks,etc) don't find attractive.


That's only part of the picture as what we are really talking about is at the core of human existence and as such involves just about everything
Anyway,Technology pushes Aspies toward alpha positions for the same reasons it did so for the geeks who were social outcasts not to long ago and in just one generation become very desirable for most sane women.
Eventually Aspies would do even better than geeks for many reasons i do not feel like counting now but even to-date many aspies are doing very well at science and technology and as those fields are constantly gaining more weight so would be the people who tend to practice them,
Society at large tend to be more accommodating toward aspies as times go by and since this kind of creatures are very sensitive and very dependent on the quality of interaction any small step in that direction is an huge step for them,
as society evolves to understand and implement tolerance and to accept diversity,originality and uniqueness as crucial aspect of survival aspies would drift toward the alpha position
in fact it is already happening at the more developed countries
Besides,many autistics,male and female are are actually beautiful,even very,it's not the shallow beauty of the bimbo but lot of people are attracted to the unique,expressive look many AS have
I'm 56 and still attract a lot of attention from the opposite sex
My guess is that some women can sense AS traits as very desirable
perhapses there is kind of "Hypergamy" that doesn't limit it self to income and social status
at least some women are not as shallow as u imagine them to be
Technology allowed us greater access to the "market" and greater access gives u basically 2 choices
act like a pig which is the path most people naturally choose or practice a more selective approach which is natural for aspies anyway
technology enhances monogamy as it enables privacy and selective behavior but only in the long run and it benefits people who understand it and know how to use it
most people still don't.



nara44
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28 Jul 2010, 6:57 pm

Keeno wrote:

Yet it's not just me, it's probably the more independent, self-reliant Aspie in general, as I know a number of Aspies who seem to fit this politically liberal, socially conservative pattern.

I have been suspecting for a long time that conservative women are best for Aspies and maybe this is one reason why.


Independence and,self-reliance probably linked in some ways to strong moral bone and strong convictions which probably balance the very challenging sensory experience that's part of being autistic
i'me not sure a conservative women would be best for an Aspie
I think that what he needs,what i need,is someone with same strange mix of conservative liberalism because i feel that many of the so called autistic traits are born out of this particular mix which touches fundamentals such as sense of time and space and makes us interpret events and interactions very differently from NT's,
When u r out of both ends of the spectrum simultaneously u bound to have very different sense of reality and have very different expectations that can no longer be termed in the traditional manners/



NeantHumain
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28 Jul 2010, 11:09 pm

nara44 wrote:
Keeno wrote:

Yet it's not just me, it's probably the more independent, self-reliant Aspie in general, as I know a number of Aspies who seem to fit this politically liberal, socially conservative pattern.

I have been suspecting for a long time that conservative women are best for Aspies and maybe this is one reason why.


Independence and,self-reliance probably linked in some ways to strong moral bone and strong convictions which probably balance the very challenging sensory experience that's part of being autistic

I'm a pretty independent-minded person, and I definitely more sexual openness than less, but then again, I don't associate sexuality in itself with shame the way our culture seems to condition most people into feeling about it (such an ambivalence! shame at its expression but a constant exhibitionism!). I'm perfectly fine with sex outside a relationship although I'd prefer sex within a relationship. I don't mind people of different sexual orientations and tastes so long as they're not inflicting harm upon others (consensual BDSM notwithstanding). I'm personally not a wild, partying type, but I unabashedly like sex.

My politics lean liberal.