Those awful "Guys: here's what women want" lists

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Whenever the kind of list described in the subject line pops up on MSN or something, despite the warning signals going off in my brain, my morbid curiosity gets the better of me and I always have to click and see why else I have no chance in the world of dating. For example: "Give her a compliment at least once a day," it says, yet I also understand that it's very possible to compliment on the wrong thing or have a compliment taken the wrong way. Even when I'm thinking good things about a girl, compliments just don't come naturally to me, because I'm a freaking, blithering idiot the moment my mouth opens. I may not come across this way in writing, but believe you me.
These lists don't help me in any way at all. In fact, they make it worse. I'm told my only real problem is my nerves, so reading these things just makes me feel all the more like I'm always walking on eggshells around women, like if I make just the tiniest false notion, BOOM, there goes whatever chances I might have had. Therefore, I'm much less likely to open my mouth. I can't say the wrong thing if I don't say anything at all, right?
Perhaps, but I don't get anywhere either. And it seems to me that even when I keep my jabbering to a bare minimum, I still somehow manage to put my foot in my mouth. So what's the risk of a few more instant awkward "silencers" before the night is through, if that means I actually opened my mouth and spoke to a girl? I'm not bad looking, I'm honest, I'm intelligent... yet I've never been in a relationship in all my life, and at age 28, I'm beyond sick sick sick sick sick of being alone. If love is such a natural thing, why does it cause such merciless agony for a guy like me to attain it?
Heh, it feels kind of like I'm answering my own question here.
Anyway, opinions? I'd especially like to know what the women here think of these lists.

Lets tart with the basics, [b]every[/b human being likes being appreciated at most times and if you are committed in /trying to start a relationship you are going too need to show some affection to the woman if you dont want her to end up ditching you.


There are several different ways of showing affection to another human being(in this case a female) for example theoretically you could buy her some flowers every day however she is most likely to end up getting bored of reciving the same stuff daily and you are most likely to run out of money if you follow this road.

The list mentions complimenting her because its one of the easiest things to do for most males and it doesnt cost that much. Now I see that you have problems when complimenting a female dont worry there are several other ways of showing affection to a woman that are appreciated. Most women love to talk on the phone so when starting a relationship you should try to call her at least three times a week(you may have a hard time talking on the phone and try to avoid using it whenever posisible however in a relationship you have to make some efforts and this is one of the aspects where I fail at most of the times), there are other multiple ways of showing affection to the opposite sex but Im quite certain you got the idea/other users can come up with some more.

i think they're gross. "how to bag a girl" type things.

be you.
if someone likes / loves / desires you for anything else (such as a learned set of behaviors, such as you would read in said lists) they are not right for you. you cannot really "say the wrong thing" (not so wrong that one wrong thing would drive someone away) to the right person. they will accept your good & bad traits.

women's magazines (cosmo, etc) are full of "how to please your man in bed" type articles, which are sort of the same thing, and equally terrible. "how to bag a guy" type things. and to a woman asking an equivalent question about those sorts of articles, i would say the same thing. these "bag of tricks" type articles / lists seem very manipulative and destructive to me.

all advice will sound bittersweet to someone who is lonely, esp. "be yourself" if so far being yourself hasn't worked. but, i really think it is true. then you will know that if someone returns your affections, it is genuine.

Yeah, how should we know what they want?

I am female and I don't like those lists. They are based on stupid stereotypes.

This x1000000000.

thumbs down on the lists. dont you listen to 'em buddy

Talk to a friend who is a girl, maybe? She could offer some pointers. However, each girl is different. You may be better off with becoming her friend first, she'll be more likely to open up to you. And I don't wanna hear "that will just put you in the friend zone." There's nothing wrong with being friends with girls, it could help you understand them better.

P.S. Those lists are stupid. Roissy's and other such lists are full of it. Every girl/guy is different so the same techniques won't work of them all. :/

techniques?

hereinliestheproblem

(screamingintoacanyon)

Sorry, did I word that incorrectly? I just used the word "techniques" for lack of a better term. D:

i think i just have a problem with the whole game, and i'm surprised not to hear a chorale of agreement and applause

maybe what one person would call a "technique" i would call a "manipulation"

I don't like the manipulation part of it either. I wish people could just be honest with each other. I do that, but that could be why I'm single.

Generalizations like that are annoying. I saw a book of turn-offs for women at the bookstore and it was incredibly dumb. Nobody alive doesn't do at least a few of the things listed.

my inability to integrate well socially arises equally from my lack of understanding and my lack of desire to participate in that which i don't understand or agree with.

so my post wasn't meant to be negative toward you, or toward anyone, but toward the implicit (and mystifying) role playing i associate with upholding the status quo. your attitude may be more adaptive, which could be a good thing.

I understand a criticism of certain aspects of, say, pickup manuals, but this kind of broad slating of advice on principle is misguided. After all, people with AS generally have difficulty communicating and understanding social conventions, and may need pointers. Maybe one believes that negging, for instance, plays on the insecurities of others by design, and furthermore may conclude that it is an immoral action. But a man with AS might approach courtship with perfectly good intentions, to try to make a girl at least feel comfortable rather than insecure, and not manage to do this. So precise and constructive advice can be viewed as a way to better convey who you are, rather than a way to make you into a different person with perhaps a different moral code. Taking on this advice in this manner is not being dishonest with yourself, because your intentions haven't changed.

Advice like "give compliments" is perfectly innocuous, though as the OP indicated it may be naive. I've read accounts of a few women who claim to dislike men giving them too many compliments. The school of negging types are presumably skeptical about the benefits of giving compliments. But giving compliments is a sincere way of conveying interest that's presumably already there to begin with; it's only "manipulation" in that it helps makes interest more transparent.

As far as the OP goes, there are two issues. First, the advice he gets may be too imprecise; second, it may be based on anecdotal evidence, so it may be not true in general. Certainly a lot of human behaviour is not very well understood, so even if the advice could be better, even the best can only take him so far. If he gets to the point, which I admittedly feel I've also reached, where most of the advice mostly seems like mundane stuff he's already tried, then all I can suggest is practice. After a certain point of awareness of social customs, you may get a better sense of what you're doing wrong from failing than you would from any article.

I think those lists are insulting and yes- manipulative. I dated someone who happened to use techniques and fakery to try to ensure our relationship would last, and it made me distrust him. We can see right through that! The example of "giving a compliment every day" seems cheesy- it is something he would have done, and it is really obvious when guys do these things. Stick with being yourself, and if she complains about something try to talk about it and see if it is something you can actually realistically change.