Give examples of sh-tests you were put through

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I think the root of the problem is not following your will. I don't see asking for help for nothing in return unethical at all. It feels good to make other people feel good.

If you want to help someone, help them.
If you want to ask someone out, ask them.
If you want to help someone and ask them out, do both. (works well together)

As long as you're following your will, you'll always be happy. This board is filled with resentment, and the only way I see that possible is if someone wasn't really doing what they wanted. If you help a girl, and end up angry about it because you got nothing in return, you really did not want to help her, did you? And if you want to ask her out, do it. It should be based on it being what you want to do, not whether you think you're earned it or not.

I see the OP guilty of both of these will-defying acts and therefore, resentful because of it.

^ Good discussion. This from deadeyexx and the post from Janissy concerning "faking selflessness."

I have had a few male friends (married or otherwise attached) complain to me that they had helped a friend (usually a woman) only to feel unappreciated and or "used." In these cases though, the damsel in distress never requested help. These friends chose to barge in and make it their mission to help these women without first determining whether the help was desired and the expected compensation - money, sex or affection, and chose to complain about the resentment they felt about performing this good deed without payment. I suspect that they felt entitled to recognition for their selfless (?) acts and now have a bad view of many women as a result of this experience.

But of course this is not what the OP orginally wrote about but the attitude of entitlement is the same. It is better to give selflessly without expectation of repayment unless otherwise discussed with the recipient of their good deeds. I give selflessly to my partner and will help others as I feel I can (or want) to help them without an expectation of reciprocity. I will not accept help from someone who expects compensation unless I am prepared to pay the price for such help.

The whole dating and love scene has changed nowadays. You can't really just go up to a woman in a bar and get chatting to her, she might think that you are a weird person or she might already have a boyfriend, who will be quite likely to wallop you for stepping onto his territory by speaking to his woman.

As I have learned, most younger women expect their guys to look super looking with lots of money and a fancy car. They like to milk it for all it is worth. They delude themselves by seeing these types of things on the TV and the web or through peer pressure from their pathetic mates. Most of these deluded women are also beautiful and they are too far up their own backsides with how pretty they are and how they can play with a guys emotion by giving him the eye or a sexy pout.

In addition to my last post, when a friend tells me what he or she is planning to do for another person and I suspect that they will be used or will eventually feel used, I try to discuss the situation with them to make them think of the possible negative consequences to their marriage/relationship or their reputation when the selfless act is not in the best interests of all concerned. They usually ignore the advice anyway and do what they want to do and complain about it later. And they never seem to learn from the experience but "everyone else is wrong."

The "Just ask her out" advice from some women here is easier said than done in a society where the pressure is on the man to make the first move. It's very easy to sit back and say "Guys should do X" when you're not a guy. Get shot down a few times, rejected a few times, and see how easy it really is.

Also, I find this a simplification of how society works -- very rarely is it appropriate to outright ask someone out. Usually, as I keep saying above (beating it like a dead horse, apparently), other activities act as proxies to facilitate this.

People who just bluntly ask other people out don't have a great success rate, and usually have very thick emotional skin. I don't see that being an accurate description of the kind of guys in this part of the forum asking for help.

And of course now that I said that, I'm sure that now I'll be buried under an avalanche of replies from women here who somehow are the exception to the above -- "I always asked first," "I asked my husband out, not him," etc. Funny how we don't see that so much in real life... Funny how easy it is to be brave or accomplished with the anonymity of the internet....

Not sure it is being "brave" but I think Aspie women sometimes don't know if a man has interest in us unless he specifically expresses interest. I have had male friends disappear from my life only to find that they were interested but they expected me to know it without them saying it. (Well sometimes they didn't just disappear but first told me off in a very angry way.) Lol. Life goes on.

On the other hand, when I have had an interest in someone, I will ask him out. Some are offended by a woman taking the lead in this way but that is the only way some women would be able to initiate a friendship and/or relationship.

Things are definately different in New Zealand from where I come from in the UK. Plus, my experiences I have faced are personal ones, and don't mean anything in the wider picture of life. I don't dislike woman, I just dislike the 4 that I never got the chance to take out: Nicola, Amber, Bernadette and Rachel. I never requested sex, but that is what Nicola thought I was after. Amber was the same as Rachel - manipulative mindgamers and Bernadette was a silly immature gal. I am more interested in talking to them and getting to know them, and sex is the last thing on my mind.

Billsmithglendale, you unintentionally proved my point with your boy scout (or whatever?) stuff... you cannot show kindness or courtesy without being selfless. the fact that the actual word 'selfless' was not used is irrelevant.