Infidelity Deception and Delusion in Relationship

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So those who can't stand to be alone are likely to have someone on the side, so that when one relationship ends, they are not alone. I'm not one who needs constant companionship (even in friendships) so this behavior is strange to me.

I guess he must have felt that you were worth it. I haven't known any partner-to-be who has been unfriendly to me from the start......but one or two of them have suddenly appeared to lose interest a little later, which I gather is something to do with the "rules" because I usually ended up with a relationship with them, suggesting that their reluctance wasn't genuine.

I'm rather skeptical of "the rules" too......on the one hand a glance at animal behaviour shows that for many species the female behaves reluctantly during the courtship phase, on the other hand I wonder how much of the human "game" is distorted by media influence.

No problem about the quotes. They did the job.

The two women who have been unfaithful to me both seemed terrified of being partnerless, and I presume that's why they went that way. But they were also both non-orgasmic, so it might have had something to do with the quest for the elusive orgasm, for all I know.

Definitely the only time I went anywhere near infidelity, a lot of the problem was that I was scared to strike out alone........I was still fairly young and could well remember the years of loneliness when I had no girlfriend, and I didn't want to go back to that. The "illicit" lady I rejected sexually actually boosted my confidence enough for me to take the plunge and leave my relationship, because although I couldn't be sure of her continuing to want me, she'd made it clear that she at least found me physically acceptable. In those days I couldn't believe anybody would want me.

These days it's very different - I still get strong feelings of being utterly undesirable, but intellectually I can easily work out that it's not really the case, because I've rarely been partnerless since the 1960s. Also I believe that "overlapping" harms the overlapper because they don't get the time to get used to the changeover....then there's the problem of how to build up the new lady's trust after demonstrating that I can't be trusted. And there's the guilt feelings. All in all, a bit of loneliness and insecurity is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

...But have you ever approached a clueless aspie who can't fathom why you'd talk to her... and she has a look on her face that looks like annoyance - but that's just her facial expression, not her mood. Funny - he always seemed terrified of me during our marriage. Lol.

Seems like the same motivation, doesn't it?



So it seems that if Partner A has an affair with Partner B, when he or she leaves the original partner, it is best to attach to new Partner C, since Partner B will expect infidelity from Partner A and Partner A will always feel guilty about the affair while with Partner B. I know that looks convoluted but I understand what I wrote.

In other words, the straying partner will leave the relationship because it is not working, not because he or she wants to be with the other woman/man.

No, traditionally I've been a complete coward and always assumed that if a lady frowns at me, she probably just doesn't like me. Even when they have obviously liked me, I've never been able to believe they want more than casual friendship with me. Though more recently I have befriended one lady with strong autistic traits who was at the time going ballistic at somebody else......it was pretty scary but I somehow managed to calm her down, and found myself doing all kinds of "brave" things that I never thought I'd do. I guess it was because the focus was on their fight rather than on what she thought of me, so the emotional risk wasn't so great. Her volatile temper is quite frightening, and some people do seem to be scared of her, but so she's been as nice as pie to me, at least so far.

Yes it does. Basically the one who starts a secret affair is using the existing partner as a stepping stone....the victim is good enough to provide bottom-line emotional security until somebody better happens to turn up. Though a lot of unfaithful people have no intentions of getting serious with the new sexual partner or leaving the existing one - I don't know how they do that, reducing the new encounter to a bit of light entertainment.

That might "work" as long as Partner C is kept in the dark about Partner A's "purple past." But it's a shame that such shady methods have to be used at all, when all those people are really looking for is love. The term "feet of clay" comes to mind........

This is an example of when one partner (the mistress) believes they are in a relationship when in fact they are not. The unfaithful partner does appear to be taking advantage for his or her gratification.



Sometimes Partner C is kept in the dark about Partner A and B until the unfaithful partner begins feeling guilty (in the present or about the past) so Partner D is brought into the picture to take the place of Partner C when the **** hits the fan. I have watched this scenario play out. "Unfaithful Partner" collects partners like toys.

Do you believe that to be an aspie trait or do you believe this attitude comes from poor self-esteem? I sometimes feel the same way when I am approached, but then I get confused, because I realize I don't know what they want. My current partner was surprised that I didn't know he loved me (until he told me!) I try to pay extra attention now to everything he says (and my attention span is poor unless I hyperfocus) so I don't miss anything important.

A new thought on deception - or is it perceived deception - in relationships where one or both partners have aspie traits. The aspie is likely not pretending or presenting a false persona to their partner early in the relationship - no matter what the unhappy partners of aspies might think.

Aspie begins relationship (or marriage) with partner. The aspie may be unaware of their traits or behaviors but does not attempt to deceive their partner about their personality. The non-aspie partner can clearly see that their partner is a little "different." This may be fine for a while but then the non-aspie partner tires of their partner's behavior and attempts to justify to all of their friends and family that "aspie" deceived them although they will recall that they noticed many years prior that "aspies" family appeared "cold' and "distant." The aspie's "deception" helps build a case for the angry non-aspie partner to abandon aspie for a new partner.

Aspie is then reluctant to begin a new relationship for fear that they will "deceive" (and therefore hurt) a new partner. There was never an attempt on the part of Aspie to deceive anyone but Aspie is unwilling to have every word and action psychoanalyzed or criticized in further relationships. How can the Aspie avoid being labeled "deceptive?"

I don't know for sure......I have both autism and some kind of poor self-esteem. Originally I was completely blind to all the between-the-lines hints, later I began to notice things and I'd often get a feeling that some or other lady was interested.....but then the logical brain would always question that and tell me that I had no real evidence. One of the problems was that I probably believed too strongly in the possibility of platonic friendship between people who in simple biological terms were potential mates. These days I think 100% platonic is very rare - even when there's no actual sex, there's nearly always an awareness. But I still tend to feel as if platonic is all there is out there, even though that doesn't explain the number of relationships I've had - like they were all aberrations never to be repeated. That's got to be down to poor self-esteem.

Yes that's really difficult. I haven't started a relationship since I discovered my autism a year or so ago, so I can't have been guilty of deliberately hiding the fact. Even so, looking back, it seems clear that my behaviour always became more Aspie once the relationship was past the "honeymoon stage." During early courtship I'd just feel very strong and positive - probably because at last I was getting good evidence that somebody actually wanted me, and that would have energised me greatly. And in that state I found myself capable of amazing things. Then, once the initial frenzy had abated, I lost those powers. It would have looked for all the world as if I'd consciously done a scam, to make the lady think I was a better catch than I was, but at the time I really believed I'd permanently risen above my usual "introverted" nature. I rather suspect that acquiring a partner causes hormonal changes that almost cure AS, if only because of the extra energy they seem to give me.

I think it's true of most people, that they make a special effort when making new friends and partners, then they "relax" when they feel more sure of them. The whole mainstream mating game seems to be shot through with deception from the start, as nobody wants to blow it by being too candid about their downside....much as an advertiser will talk up their product with no thought for the long term when people will find out they've been duped. A male pigeon will fan out his tail feathers so the female will "think" that he's bigger than he really is, and if there ever was such a thing as an honest male pigeon who saw the likely long term issues and refused to cheat, then that pigeon would be extinct. Yet a pigeon lacks the cognitive skills to even know what cheating is, he's just doing what his dad does. Similarly, mainstream humans spruce themselves up for a night "on the pull" and nobody seems to worry about it but me.

Once you know about your autism, you have the option to reveal that to any potential mate. Like I say, I've never been in that position so I don't know what I'd do. I like to think I'd be honest, and I don't feel my condition would usually be a deal-breaker - after all, the other person is likely to judge me mainly on the behaviour she's seen from me, and like I said there's not usually much of a problem at first. I'd like to think I'd follow through with a warning about how my behaviour could slip once we'd been involved for a while, and how I'd be willing to do everything I could to make sure that wouldn't happen....I might explain how it's gone that way before and what behaviour seems to have led me to "relaxing."

One strong theory of mine is that a new couple will, for a time, pretty much seal themselves off from the rest of humanity, as if they had a membrane around themselves as a couple, and then they dissolve that membrane and reduce the intensity of their friendship.......I think the way that membrane is dissolved can make or break the whole relationship - if it's done gradually and mutually, things should remain good. If one partner just rips the membrane up unilaterally, or if they try to keep the membrane in place for too long, things will go wrong. Mostly my relationship failures can be explained in these terms.

But I've also noticed that I have the most difficulty with eye contact with the people who are closest to me - my wife and my son. If it were just my wife, I'd think it could be because of the breakdown of trust and the disappointment from finding out that she's not as caring as she seeemed when we first met, but I've never felt that way about my son.

But is it really Apsie behavior or just more relaxed behavior?



What causes the loss of these "powers?" It would seem that we would settle in and "be ourselves" with no thought that the partner expects performance.



Is it really a deliberate effort when meeting new people? I make a poor first impression (I have been told that by people who told me that they like me better as they got to know me.) Is there an awareness of relaxing with our friends? I'm not sure that a person who is false is really aware that they are deliberately deceiving people.



I'd almost take the approach that I'd disclose my faults early so that my partner can decide early whether he wants to continue with me. No wasting time for either of us.



I remember when my late husband became aware of my "difference" and I remember how disappointed he was that I would never be the wife he really wanted. That made me feel bad for him. (I never thought I had been deceptive about myself.) I wanted him to be happy.

I disclosed to my current partner after about a year of miscommunications - we were hurting each other's feelings. I didn't think he would understand what it is like to be autistic, but I wanted him to think about whether he could live with my personality (I also appear hyper and ADD which is really annoying to some.) I also wanted him to know that I never mean to hurt his feelings and I would have different ways of showing him I care about him. He knew then that I would always be asking questions in order to understand how to communicate better. Sample conversation:

Him: I didn't like what you said. (or) I didn;t like the way you said that.
Me: What did you hear in my voice or comment that you didn't like?
Him: (Explanation of his perception of my comment) Then "OK Stop the psychology. : )

Of course, I learn much from the feedback I get from him and others. We can learn to communicate better even though we will constantly make mistakes and tick someone off. And it is helpful if a partner asks for the type of affection he or she wants - a hug, a kiss, flowers for an anniversary, etc. Most of us are willing to show the affection that is wanted but we can't read minds. Judging from the relationships of my friends and family, non-aspies cannot read minds either.



Probably a good reason that an Aspie should have a partner who is non-judgmental.



Trying to follow this membrane theory. Can you elaborate more on this?



Some of us actually have the opposite problem. I am fascinated with eyes so I have to consciously avoid eye gaze because I am likely to stare. This scares people.



But then perhaps that is not really due to failure on your part but more a matter of her unrealized expectations. Lowering our expectations for others' behavior helps us get along better with others. Is it wrong to take this attitude?

I don't know. Seems to be associated with the shock of realising the partner has a negative side. I guess the two reasons for not noticing it before are that I was loathe to see anything bad in a new partner, and that the new partners were loathe to do anything bad at first.


Again, I don't know. Those powers have always deserted me eventually, and it's always associated with unexpected, disappointing behaviour from the partner.....I've never had a serious relationship in which the partner has continued to behave as well towards me as they had initially, so I have no personal evidence that it would happen whatever the partner did.


I don't think it's usually deliberate deception. When people first meet, they seem to automatically make a greater effort with them than they would with people they know well - they'll take more care not to hurt their feelings, they'll come over as somehow brighter and more attentive....I guess it's because they don't feel so sure of the new person so they're anxious to impress them, assuming they're that interested enough in the first place.


I'm sure that's the wisest approach, and it makes perfect sense to me. But if they expect the standard "man-chases-and-romances-woman" thing then that's going to get in the way terribly.


I take it you were undiagmosed when you first met? What were the main things he was disappointed about?


Seems strange to me.......somebody makes a complaint and then doesn't like to focus too hard on a detailed analysis of the events leading up to the complaint. I suppose that's the NT mind expecting that you'd just know how to fix it without analysis?

Sadly, it seems that for a lot of people, being able to give them what they want, without being explicitly told to, is a key part of their reassurance that the other person "really cares" about them. If they have to explain exactly what they want, they feel that they're making it too easy....they seem to want that mind-reading. Of course it must be great when somebody happens to work out what you want and give it to you without being asked.......but I never knew that happen to me, so I have a hard time understanding how anybody can find it such a deal-breaker when they don't get it.


Yes non-judgemental is a must for me with close friends and partners.


Well, I've always noticed that a new couple will be very heavily into each other, seeking privacy together at every turn, almost worshipping each other while the rest of the world takes a back seat. That's the "membrane" of which I speak. It's never absolute - the couple still turn up for work, talk to their friends etc., but the relationship has a very high priority, as if it were a matter of life and death. There's an urban legend that couples normally move out of that into a "deeper kind of love" - and many people say that they begin by being "in love" and end up not being in love, but they love in a deeper way. It's also sometimes called the "honeymoon effect":
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=5043381
On the other hand we sometimes hear of old couples who are said to be "still in love" after many years, so there's clearly an abuse of terminology going on.

I first got the idea - that the way this transition is managed can make or break the whole relationship - from a book called "What Do Women Want?" by Suzie Orbach and Louise Eichenbaum. The idea resonated with my own experiences, e.g. in my first serious relationship - we'd been doing very well for a few weeks, then I noticed my girlfriend had begun to cool off in subtle ways......she was less keen on cuddling me in public, she imposed a new way of holding hands that allowed her to easily slip her hand out of mine so that she could easily break our tie if she happened to notice someting or somebody that interested her, and she began to give other people more attention than she was giving me. I tolerated it for a while, then I calmly explained that her behaviour was hurting me, she said sorry and that she'd sort it out, but nothing changed, in fact it got worse because she started wanting jobs with antisocial hours that would keep us apart, she was doing all kinds of things that I wasn't going to be allowed to go to.

Eventually I lost patience and we fought like cat and dog over it for a couple of years. Eventually she sort of complied, and stopped accusing me of possessiveness, and we seemed to reach some kind of compromise, but in the process she'd become to seem to me like a thoroughly disappointing partner......I became more passionate about my old special interests than I was about her, because there I could succeed, while with her I was just failing all the time.....she whinged about my interests but never seemed particularly upset by them, until we got married, when the extent to which I'd shut her out of my life became impossible to ignore. She panicked and tried to force me to pay her better attention, and I'd never had a clingy partner before so it just sent me further into my shell. People told me that I could probably rescue it by giving a little ground, but it was such a scary thought, to open the door to somebody who was banging on it so hard, that I feared an avalanche and I was driven further and further away. Around that time, I began to realise that I was starting to feel attracted to other women.....now if we'd only handled the dissolution of the membrane in a gradual, mutual way, we could have probably saved all those years of heartache.


I guess children have their expectations shaped for them from the moment they're born, so if the parents aren't perfect, they won't see those shortcomings because they've always been there and they don't know any different. But adults seem to have a whole set of expectations for partners. Whether or not to lower the standards is hard to know. If the expectations are unusual or against the prevailing social wind, it's tempting to try, but if those expectations are very deep-rooted (and sometimes you don't find out what they are until you've had them denied), it can be impossible. I didn't even know how to articulate clearly what I found unacceptable with my first serious partner. I knew there was something horribly wrong (from my point of view) and I fought against it with everything I had, but I couldn't put a name to it.

Also there are some bottom-line expectations that most people can't lower, and I think that's usually a good thing that they can't. For example, if partner A's behaviour is destabilising the relationship, then partner B might challenge that just for the sake of the kids........with childless couples I suppose it's entirely up to the individuals involved, so they could go for an "expectation-free" relationship, though I can't see why anybody would want a partner like that, as it's no different from the relationship between mere acquaintances. I'd love a relationship with somebody who was just completely right for me from the start, with no need for us ever to challenge each other, but it's not something I've known in the real world. In my experience, we all have lines for each other and we all cross them sometimes.

For me, it's paramount that if partner A feels really strongly about something, then partner B must take it seriously and do all they can to resolve the problem, without trying to belittle the intensity of A's needs or otherwise demoralising A. Whatever it is, however silly and irrational it seems, if one partner feels gutted about it, then it's the responsibility of both of them to work out a good fix. Of course if A uses this button too often, while B seems to have few complaints, the power balance will be skewed.....I guess B could then say that they feel very strongly that A is calling too many shots, and then A would need to take that on board and be a bit less gung-ho with the objections.

So it's not really relaxation, it seems to be a sense that our partners are treating us badly, just as our former-friends-turned-bullies from childhood treated us. Is that right?



And of course, women 'who do too much" suffer when we cannot keep up with the expectations of the first days of the relationship. I have a friend who explained his rationale for sexually cheating on his wife, this way:

When they first met and moved in together, she ironed his shirts, did the housework and generally couldn't do enough for him. But one day she stopped ironing his shirts! He sensed that she no longer cared about him so he was forced to have sex with another woman (who apparently cared? - but at least she didn't have to iron his shirts or clean his house, did she?) He seemed suprised though when she threw him out of the house and filed for divorce when she found out about the affair.



It is difficult to really explain although I completely understand it. When we met, he thought I was shy and probably just a bit different. He probably felt years later (when he noticed me stimming) that there had been a bait-and-switch. Although I don't have a diagnosis, I had told him about my childhood and various labels (autistic, ret*d) that had been placed on me. He chose to ignore it just as my parents had ignored it - because I was a good student and highly motivated person. I worked full-time, cleaned house, took care of the pets, cooked meals, etc. and when he lost his job and went through a major depression, later illness as a result of the depression and even later, terminal illness, I stood by him and protected him and never made demands of him. I am a real work-horse. But he needed more than that and reminded me of it. Told me which of my friends he would have married if he had not married me, looked for attention wherever he could get it, etc. He tried to start arguments hoping I would respond by yelling back at him. But I couldn't yell at him. (He seemed very happy though if he could push me into making a playful sarcastic remark when he yelled at me.) But I never complained. I knew that the depression and his illness were affecting him. I believe in the last few hours of his life, he realized that I cared for him - I have a different way of showing it. But it really was never enough for a person who was highly sensitive and needed emotional attention. I am sorry that I couldn't give him what he really needed.



And what is really interesting, is that Aspies (as well as non-Aspies) also want reassurance in a relationship. It is wrong to assume that we have no feelings or needs - but we don't know how to communicate them to our partners. A language barrier.



One of the mistakes we probably make is assuming that behavior will remain constant throughout the stages of a relationship. Fortunately, I do not experience the "honeymoon effect" or "infatuation" for a partner. (But sometimes I wish I could experience it.) We will not always have the same interests, friends, work, lifestyles, etc. over the long term and as they say of those who are in the passsionate phase, "you can't stay in bed forever," Real life does get in the way of romance. I am much better in a relationship where I am with someone I can share my life with as a partner, but it is not necessary to be joined at the hip. A common purpose as well as having a best friend (and better than a friend) who will never abandon me. Is that too much to ask?



I guess I could say that I have no expectations but I would probably be lying about that. : )

The wife was in the wrong.