"too intelligent"

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I've been told this is my problem.. and that I should hide it. Not an option.

I'm constantly reminded that women are the sexual attractor. I can accept that to an extent.. so whats the problem with having brains and beauty at the same time? It's not like it requires extra co-ordination. Intelligence and talent should not detract from physical beauty, it should compliment it and be just as valued. Why do so many people act like women should choose one or the other? I'm sick of being expected to dumb myself down.. it's always been contant battle. Do other 'aspie' women feel this way?

There are a lot of men out there who would be put off by an intelligent woman, but are they men you'd want around you for more than five minutes? If you caught one, could you live with putting on an act the rest of your life?

There are men out there who are basically attracted to brains and strength. That's what you want.

There's an old book, probably out of print, by Nathaniel Branden on Romantic Love where he makes that point most cogently. He also suggests going into any relatinship with your eyes open.

AND ... people who think in terms of "women are...." or "women should...." or "all women....[anything]" are very poor mates for any woman who is an individual and not a stereotyped member of her class. Because he WILL apply the mold to you whether it fits or not (see Procrustes) and be hurt or angry when you don't fit it.

Better to hold out for a mate of quality. (signed) bin there dun that

For me their are three main factors when it comes to attractiveness. I don't know if they really have equal ranking. There are other qualities that also count, but I don't place as much emphasis

Physical Attractiveness:
Yeah, this is important to me. I'm not going to lie to myself about this. On the other hand, I have more of a 'range' here than most men would say. It is possible to be overweight and still look seriously hot. One of my instructors back in college was like that. (The guy who married her is probably a very lucky man Met most of the other criteria too.)

Intelligence:
It's a little bit more broad here then just intelligence, but I can't think of a word here. More or less, I want to be with someone I can actually relate to. Talk and the like. I mean the word 'relate' is kind of right in the word 'relationship'. I want to be with someone that provokes thought. And probably someone I can provoke thought in too.

Kindness:
While it might not be 'hot' like the other two, I wouldn't want to be with a jerk. I'm willing to put up with a lot, so should anyone I'm with. Figure it's kind of important that the two people actually say that they have feelings for each other, and they like being around each other. (I hesitate to use the word love, because I'm not exactly sure what it is, it's poorly defined, and I don't think it's neccesary for a relationship. Not even required for a healthy one. But that's another topic) And I mean this kind of thing is supposed to help build your self esteem isn't it? Not destroy it?

The three are not directly proportional to each other. That is, someone that's smart doesn't have to be ugly and mean. Nor is someone ugly smart and/or nice.

I mean, think about those martial artist guys. Extremely well developed physically. But at the same time, they're generally very calm rational people, that are anything but antagonistic (I realize that there's a variation here too.)



And a lot of my 'internet buddies' (I spend far too much time on it ) hold similar opinions.

You know what, come to think of it maybe that's the direction to go in. Date more geeks At least the good ones. (We can be jerks too.)


All that being said, intelligence is attractive. And don't let anyone get you thinking otherwise. If someone says you're too smart? Look at it as they are saying that you are 'too good'. (That is to say, you hold too much value, rather morality. Morality is something different )

I confess I've been quite naughty about this kind of thing.

If a guy asks me what I do - and I don't want to scare him and I think he's scareable, I say I'm a "typist", and I don't tell him I type computer programs or anything that sounds the least bit brainy.

I save the scary intelligent stuff for later meetings - if there are any.

The best guys are the ones who like everything about me the way it is, including my hairy legs. However most guys like to feel they are needed to take care of a woman in the smart thinking, navigating and paying for the food departments. They don't handle it too well if they find out that you're older than they are even if it is only a year, or that you earn more than them, or that you have more education than them or worst sin of all - you're better at navigating than them.

Somehow you have to let them know what it is that you do appreciate about having them around which usually has nothing to do with what they think will impress you. However this takes time - which you don't always get if they find out how much smarter you are than them (by their rating system).

Strangely no bloke I've met likes the idea of being used for sex and treated as a brainless piece of meat. You think more of them would understand a woman's point of view better.

My experience is that although women don't like to be viewed as sex objects, generally they rather like the idea of being lusted after, and thought of in "interesting situations".

The problem arises though that some (many) men don't know the difference.

hmm, if you told me that you were a typist, I would quickly lose interest in dating you. There would be no later meetings.

riley: Please note that this problem of people being scared off by intelligence is NOT limited to only men. Both genders do it. I am a man and I have experienced women being scared off by my intelligence, or feeling insecure or defensive as a result of my intelligence. Both genders are culpable. That this is a deficiency of only men is a stereotype.

Myself, if I was dating a woman more intelligent than me, I would just chuckle to myself and smugly think about what a good catch I have, and what a winner and slick bastard I am, i.e. it would boost my ego, not that it needs any boosting

Scoring a simultaneously beautiful and intelligent woman is like winning the lotto, but better Any man who declines to collect such a wonderful prize is a fool!

Last edited by emp on 13 Jun 2006, 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

I didn't realise I was until I started getting older. I was with a guy for apx. six years.. he was ten years my senior [I was 17 when we met] so I felt very comfortable for a while. The thing was when I started outgrowing him he resisted and the relationship became dangerous.. he tried to make me 'fit the mold' just like you said. All I was meant to do was 'be pretty'. The expectation that attractive women be stupid is probably more frustrating in the cultural context as well as it imposes limitations on how I live my life and punnishes me when I don't adhere to the norm.. in dating and even just socialising it means I have alot of men puffing out their chests because they view intelligence as a 'male' trait and so deem me competition or something to be 'dominated'. The telly says men need 'this that and the other' to attract pretty women but when the subtle 'Opens the wallet to accidentally show credit cards' fails they are stumped on which bait to use so either fight or flee.

[Edit. I don't mean 'all men' either.. just the ones I see to have problem with.]

I'm not in a real hurry to find a mate and I'm quite happy to keep evolving as a person but I don't want to outgrow possibilities.


Thanks for book reference.. I'll see if I can find a copy.

This is very close to my ideal.. friendship. I've seen alot of people here who seem to have 'attractive' at the top of their list.. and at the bottom. No wonder they're f# miserable. I admit that I like attractive males but I'd also want to empathise with them as well. The looks would be secondary to who they are otherwise I wouldn't be with them. If they couldn't understand me and grow with me [and vice verser] I'd get frustrated and bored.

I'm wondering.. what qualifies as a 'geek' these days? It used to be just anyone who used a computer and played dungeons and dragons saturday nights. How do they define themselves in this day and age [serious question]?

emp

You seem to have a lot of predjudice about typists.

Of course that kind of assuming you know me from what I "do", would put you into the scarable category for me and not the enquiring mind category at all.

I think I must have learnt the "typist" trick from my Dad. If you walk into a pub full of blue collar workers and you want to get to know some of them, chances are they may find the idea of someone academically inclined a little scary. However I've found that doesn't necessarily mean that they themselves are stupid either. Intelligent people are usually pretty good at recognising other intelligent people unless they are completely close minded, and how intelligent is that?

And I'm talking the kind of intelligence that enjoys a bit of logical debate and philosophy, not necessarily the kind of intelligence that is socially adept - there are many different kinds of intelligence in my world.

I've met some really interesting typists, brick layers, plumbers, farmers, taxi drivers, butchers and some really boring lawyers, doctors, teachers, philosophers, mathematicians. You can't tell by what people do how interesting or intelligent they are going to be.

Ack. If he's that scareable he might be too insecure and therefore not a good emotional investment anyway. You might have to hide other things about yourself.

It shouldn't be like disclosing some deep dark secret though! Hmm.. think I'll just pretend to have an immence fear of bugs that I can be saved from now and then.
IMO this is where alot of resentment of feminism comes from.. there don't seem to be many ways for men to show that their 'male power' anymore. No animals to hunt, enemies to slay etc. Perhaps the media reseves intelligence for males because women already have beauty?

I honestly have not heared of this before. What about your intelligence scared them? Did they feel pressure to be intelligent themselves? Were they instantly intimidated or did they realise they were out of their depth perhaps?
Most women I've known who fall into more 'traditional' roles have no problem with intelligence.. so long as the guys have no problem with looking after them. I think the stereotypes are the main problem.. it does not adequately reflect fact and so some of us get held hostage by it [where others opress themselves, marry people they don't love and can't relate to or become anorexic and pay doctors to mutilate them].

See.. everyone benefits from SNAG posts [Both yourself and Xuincherguixe].
I am not so disheartened now- I feel appreciated and there are some of the other guys at this forum could learn a thing or two from both of you.

Now thats an ego boost! Seriously.. I was feeling very disapointed with some of the attitudes on women expressed here but I've decided they're in the minority so will stick around.

Beyond the "is intelligence attractive?" angle, there's a significant anti-intelligence attitude in society as a whole. Look which newspapers sell the most - gutter press tabloids and celebrity gossip mags. And these portray intelligent people in a very stereotyped and not entirely friendly way. Look at how scientists get labelled 'boffins' and that you can only be a media-friendly scientist if you fit their 'mad professor' stereotype.

Another important point is exactly what you mean by 'intelligent'. There are many aspects to it, we even have 'emotional intelligence' now - or lack of it for some of us And there are plenty of people who have many academic qualifications, yet can't fry an egg

I must confess that I try to avoid stupid people and find them tedious to be around. I like talking to people who have interests and are passionate about them. However, I've now learned that that makes me odd and that social skills appear to be about gloss with little substance.

I don't think it's sensible to hide your intelligence when looking for serious companionship. But there are other situations in life where it may be tactful to keep it under wraps.

It is not a matter of prejudice. It is a matter of probability and efficiency. Yes I acknowledge that I may be compatible (relationship-wise) with a typist, but statistically speaking, it is only a small probability. I am a busy man, and I do not have time to get to know every person I run into. I only have time for a few people, and so I must eliminate candidates using methods that, yes, are partially inaccurate. The point is, it is mostly accurate. I accept the fact that by using this method, I might miss someone attractive. Life is full of compromises, and you do not have the time or energy to do EVERYTHING perfectly. This is a reasonable compromise for me to make.

The other problem with claiming to be a typist is that it is dishonest. What should I think of a person when one of the first things they do is to LIE to me about their occupation? Dishonesty is not a good way to start a relationship. When you later tell me your real occupation, even if I like it (and I do), I would probably dump you for lying to me.

So I think you are shooting yourself in the foot twice, and potentially making intelligent men uninterested in dating you.

I am not sure because they will not talk openly about it. Pressure to be intelligent themselves is probably at least part of it. Not instantly intimidated, no, they took some time before they realized or formed an opinion of my intelligence. Feeling of being out of their depth -- possibly.

I think there may be fear that I will leave them for someone more intelligent and/or beautiful. Fear of being hurt. In reality, I am a loyal person.

Also, I think they may have ridiculous insecurities about not being "good enough" for me. Ridiculous because I do not own a Gulfstream 550 yet. When I do, then maybe not so ridiculous


I do not know what the percentages are. I just know that I have experienced it more than once. I do not believe that only men are scared off by intelligence.


Humans are littered with defects.


I am not a SNAG. Those "Caring Understanding New-age Types"... GAH!! My mission in life is to be called a slick b*stard at least once. Do not force me to prove to you that I am not a SNAG by giving you a good impudent slap on the rump


Thanks Glad to hear you are feeling better now.


I presume you are referring to those fools who have convinced themselves that they are nice guys and whine that women do not like nice guys, when in reality these guys are not really nice guys, and in fact have some rather distasteful attitudes and behaviors. Nice guys that aren't.

This is my theory, which I came up with by reading Xuincherguixe's post. People generally want someone who can (intellectually) stimulate them, and someone they are able to stimulate in return. If someone's not intelligent enough or too intelligent, the stimulation may only go in one direction.

So in short, if someone feels threatened by another's intelligence, maybe it's because they fear that they have little to offer in the way of stimulation.

Dont ever dumb yourself down. Anyone that wants you to be less intelligent than them is insecure and has issues. You want smart kids? Find a smart mom(or dad). This isnt just human instinct; all animals select for healthy mates. It ensures good offspring.

On the other hand, there is a type of person that selects AGAINST good traits, and thats what that person is looking for. Dont listen. Find someone that likes intelligent women.