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I've been drinking

I once thought that way too. I didn't feel like there was much hope for me either. It took a while, but I think I'm finally turning the corner. You can too.

From what i have notice this PUA stuff is about TRYING TO MAKE A BUCK BY SELLING A PRODUCT TO PEOPLE WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM

All these websites and magazines and books for us men say that they can get us to seduce women more easily so they can make money

The bodybuilding and fitness sites say that what women care most about the man's body and the man being muscular

The PUA stuff says that while looks are a plus, what women care most about is confidence, personality, and the man's behavior and words he uses to seduce her

Plastic surgeons say that women care most about the man's face

Get rich quick schemes say that women care most about money

Cologne manufacturers say women care most about the man the man smells

I could go on and on, but all this really is for is to sell a product to average frustrated men

actually, i agree with you. i think we can still get some useful advice out of it if we think critically and hold our wallets close, but the essence of your statements ring true to me.

What is there to study, though? You simply go up to girls, say hi to them, watch their body language, and if the water's warm, you bust a move. There is nothing that you can say outside of your income/occupation that will make them want to have sex with you (and this is sex for the entirely wrong reasons, so be careful). Sex is emotional for women, but it's impossible for a lot of them to become emotional about someone they're not physically attracted to.

That book by Lowndes is really useful although there are PUA undertones in it.

Apparently intense eye contact does wonders for attraction.

Good advice overall.

Let's see... you can buy those PUA books and/or subscribe to their websites...

Or, those of us who have the info can share what we've learned. Oh wait, I tried that recently, and everyone gave me s**t for it.

I wasn't angry at you, just taking out some frustration at being the way I am.

It was good advice for the real world.

My last response was directed toward trojan51.

It doesn't really do wonders for attraction. Nothing you can do except act within social norms, be in good shape, and have clear skin/get plastic surgery will do anything for attraction.

This is coming from someone who used to intensely stare women in the eyes when I was talking to them. It's good to maintain some eye contact, but any sustained, deep eye contact is kind of unnecessary unless you're trying to makeout with her or trying to gauge if she likes you. Deep eye contact is just a signaling mechanism used to indicate mutual attraction. It doesn't actually raise her attraction towards you.

In fact, all of the non-verbals such as sustained handshakes, winking, body proximity, smiling, blushing, friendly staring, deep eye contact, hair twirling, etc are just signals that indicate sexual interest when they appear in combinations. Want to know how quickly combinations of the aforementioned signals start to appear? Sometimes before you even open your mouth and you're making eye contact with her from across the room.

PUA's tell you not to "scan the room" for eye contact. That's incredibly stupid. How are you going to meet girls that are into you, then?

More or less, conversation is a smoke screen for what is actually going on. The girl is sizing you up. She's comparing you physically and financially to the other available guys. Being able to just stand there and talk in a socially acceptable manner is a mere prerequisite.

The reality of it is that I wish the PU theory crap actually was relevant to the degree that a PUA will tell you it is. In that case, women would be into your conversations beyond the surface level and not just your sex/money/ability to bandage their egos after receiving wounds from some past lover. Imagine if people had to make connections in order to even be sexually aroused? The world would be a different place. Unfortunately, from the perspective of self-replicating DNA, personality doesn't matter. You guys are all fine just the way you are.

PUA's will claim that women aren't looking for nice guys (I'm not talking about the supplicating, wishy-washy wimp that falls in love with girls before having sex with them). AHAHAHA, that is a farce!! I have literally been told by women "you might be good for me" when we are just beginning a new relationship. As in I will be great to use to heal their egos from wounds inflicted by a previous lover and then simple to discard when a guy with a chiseled jaw line is desperate enough to have sex with the obviously damaged girls I get.

What response was directed towards me?

And yeah women can be attracted to us for the strangest reasons and vise versa. I read PUA stuff for a while and it did teach me alot but im not very comfortable going up to women and hitting on them.

Also i dont like clubbing because they play sh*t music in the clubs.

my last response, prior to my last reply.


Maybe you should try just talking to them then, something that I don't think many on here are very comfortable doing. I'll be 36 in a couple days, and I've just now started (in the past couple weeks) attempting to meet people (or at least introduce myself) out of the blue. Granted they're women who are at some of coffee shops I frequent, but it's at least a start.

I managed to get completely tongue tied in doing so, but at least I know some names to some of these women I see often. People in general liked to be addressed by their first name. It makes them feel important, the fact that you've gone to the trouble to remember their name AND use it. This is a notable chapter from "How To Win Friends..." like I mentioned before. It's only been a brief time I've been doing it, but it seems to be getting me a better reception with people so far.


Clubs are the absolute worst places to meet women anyway, especially if you're approaching someone you don't know and/or have never seen before. They're not much better with people you HAVE seen before or might only know a little bit. Leave those places to the professionals, the guys who can navigate through those crowds to score with the herpes infested skanks that tend to hang out in those types of places.

I like the way the clubbing type women look though, although I could care less for their personalities.

PUA sites also talk about how the hot girl will have a bunch of fat friends that will try to prevent you from scoring with her out of jealousy.

I have only been clubbing once, and alot of fat girls were trying to get my number and stuff. Clubs aren't full of alot of hot women as people say. Also, clubbing isnt very fun either.

Why? Because they might reject you? Who cares!

I mean, personally, I wish I had the balls to go up to every girl in a bar and say hi. Because that's all it is, really. It's just having the balls to regurgitate out a "hi!" and watching how they react. It's literally a game of probability where you're just non-verbally surveying every girl you're attracted to with "want to have sex?" through non-verbal means like length of spontaneous interaction and eye contact.

My current take on this is if a strange girl will return eye contact with you, smile when you look at her, or her eyes bug out of her skull a bit and she blushes a bit, then you should definitely go say hi to her. This way you can literally approach every girl at the bar/club/class/library/street without even saying a thing to her. This is why I don't even bother approaching every girl at a bar because you can often tell if the interaction is going to move in a sexual direction simply by their non-verbals before you open your mouth.

Ever have some girl try to dance with you at a bar? They'll literally come over to you or just stare at you and smile from across the dancefloor.

Another thing that really sucks about bars is that the normal girls are there to be seen by their friends talking to some tall, classically handsome guy. Merely even being seen talking to that guy is a massive status boost for them in their circle of friends. That guy has his pick of any girl in that group that has low enough self-esteem and is horny enough to have a one night stand with him. Of course her girlfriends are going to give her crap for going home with the guy because they don't want their friend to be seen as a slut.

So really, unless you're the aforementioned guy at a bar, you are going to have a difficult time with the attractive women there.

The real social megafauna at any club/bar scene is not that ultra gorgeous girl the players (tall handsome and/or rich guys) want to get with or the tall handsome guy all the normal girls want to be seen talking to. The player is the mildly attractive girl that has conditioned herself to detach all emotion from sex and wants to get humped/dumped by these drunk tall handsome guys having a bad night in terms of scooping up an actual babe. Besides, what guy is going to turn down sexual favors from even a mildly attractive girl? The bar is like a fantasy land for this chick. She can get guys that wouldn't give her the time of day if they weren't drunk and she's allowed to be promiscuous.

I've scooped them up before when the pickings of tall, handsome guys are slim. They'll have sex with you in the bar bathroom after talking to you for 15 minutes or they'll give you oral sex in a quiet stairwell (been there, done that).

So, when a PUA says he had a one night stand with an HB10 at a bar, it's usually one of the aforementioned girls. Does this take any skill?? Ahahahaha, absolutely NOT. All you have to do is signal your interest non-verbally and these girls will jump on you.

Can you meet a stable, relationship oriented girl at a bar from a random approach? I suppose. Can you trick a relationship oriented girl into having a one-night stand with you? I haven't done it, but I've seen extremely good looking friends do it before. I can empathize with these girls as a relationship oriented guy that keeps meeting mildly attractive to attractive "free spirits" that use me for sex/an ego boost and then ditch me when I express non-sexual interest (only one of these recent ones was met at a bar; the rest were met at parties). I don't know if it's because I'm too good-looking for the girls that I want relationships with or if they just want to have fun. Before PUA, I thought I was too good for these chicks and didn't hook up with them. Now I feel like I'm getting dragged into being some relationally damaged, f*cked up manwhore as a result of PUA. This quick/fast action is the only way I know how to get girls. It returns disturbed girls or sluts.

When I was first starting PUA (and quickly realizing it was snake oil as soon as I noticed that picking up girls is more of a signal sending/detecting game), I got a bunch of numbers in far away cities either from girls trying to get me to go away or trying to hook up with me literally that night (and therefore disappointed, haha). One thing I learned is that most girls are just at bars/clubs to get attention and have fun dancing with their friends. The ones that want to hook-up are either looking in the wrong places for a relationship or are simply loose girls.

Finding a nice, attractive, and not bisexual girl that wants a stable relationship with me would be great. I ask them out all the time and they blow me off entirely. Since PUA told me to, I have to go for sex on the first date, and in the heat of the moment, lots of girls will succumb to this and then feel entirely used the next day. The two normal girls I've taken on dates have been like this. There's one early behavior I've acquired as a result of PUA.

I don't know if you guys want that.

I'd recommend just making lots of friends and learning to hang out with people rather than doing PUA. It has severely damaged my capability to engage in meaningful relationships with women. It was too much all at once and I was dealing with girls that had way, way more experience than me in this area.

To be clear, when I say PUA, I mean going out 3 nights a week seeking sex at bars or mingling through drug ladden house party networks to meet girls. Getting with some of these girls at least requires that you drink and smoke marijuana. After smoking enough weed, you start to branch out into other much more harmful drugs. I feel like my memory recall is significantly poorer than it used to be right after I graduated college. My mental life was a lot richer before this last year and a half that I dedicated to chasing girls.

The situations where being fast/aggressive with women works are ones that are often ladden with drugs/alcohol. In fact, I can't divorce getting girls from drugs/alcohol and it's mostly as a result of the environments following the bare bones essence of the PUA philosophy led me to. I'd love to meet a girl through work or school and find out that she rarely drinks. That'd be great. It turns out I knew what I wanted before I even lost my virginity, I didn't need to play mind games with all these girls. All those chicks that threw themselves at me that I avoided before the age of 23 were avoided because I instinctively knew they'd be awful for me. As a result of PUA, I destroyed a relationship last summer with a girl that literally looked like a model, had some mental issues but nothing really insurmountable, was overall really nice, and cared a great deal about me. It was ruined because I had to be the dominant "alpha" one at every turn and had to constantly live under the illusion that I could get any girl like PUA said I could (it didn't hurt that the girl I'd been dating sort of elevated me to demi-god status amongst my friends, but the fact of the matter was that none of those guys actually connected with her, so she didn't get with any of them).

There was another that was destroyed before it even started because I moved so fast that she thought I was a player and out to ruin her. Funny thing is that I'm not a player at all, I'm always just trying to live up to some PUA ideal even after abandoning all of their bullsh*t techniques.

Then, I recently got some of my own medicine from a bar slut that more or less pretended to be my girlfriend for two months and just used me to heal wounds in her self-esteem. I'm not treating anybody like I did with my first girlfriend again.

Last edited by roadGames on 02 May 2011, 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah well I am 6'2" and weigh about 165 a little closer to 170 at times and i am blonde haired and blue eyed, your typical tall and handsome guy.

But i still am not comfortable approaching girls and im more looking for a relationship myself, not one night stands where they could have STDs.

I do get fat girls (i dont mean mildly overweight, i mean obese, like high 100s or 200s in weight) and younger ones (like 15 and younger) approach me often, the fat ones want relationships, which i dont want to give them, and the young ones want to have sex with me, but i live in Washington where the age of consent is 16 and i dont plan on taking a risk that could cause me to have to go to jail and register as a sex offender for the rest of my life.

Maybe I will get approached at bars when I am 21, who knows?

But I don't like drinking of marijuana, ive done both and they arent that exciting. I would rather get a girl who has class and manners than a barroom or club slut.

I get mostly mildly overweight girls that I turn down, every now and then cute ones, and damaged sluts. one night stands are overrated, haha. one night stands are more of a power play sort of thing because most attractive girls (unless they're damaged bar sluts) will not have a one night stand with me, they usually require a date. the sex is not that good, either. you're usually just doing this as a stunt.