THE FRIEND ZONE

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It's the L&D section-

what would it be without clinging to opposite-sex stereotypes so desperately you'll actually imply members of that sex are lying should they disagree?

I don't think the "friend zone" would exist if the ladies really wanted to sleep with all their guy friends, deep down inside somewhere. We'd be hearing about it from the ladies, if it were true. As a group, they're very good at letting us know what's going on.

I like your avatar. Good show.

As for the 'friend zone', it's entirely the making of the one in it and not the girl he's interested in. She sees him as a friend, he wants more so he feels pushed aside.

The Friend Zone does not exist. It is just an invention of the mind. If you want to date someone and they want to be friends then keep looking for someone else. If you dont want to date them and they want to be friends, well be friends. I dont understand why this is not so simple.

The "friend zone" is merely a way for someone (of any gender) to basically tell you that you fail, without saying it to your face.

...According to that, I am the very definition of failure.

I think it probably depends on the woman. In most cases I think you should make your romantic interest known within the first few weeks. I do think, in most instances, there is a time limit. If you know a girl for four years, for example, and never bother to make this known to her, she's probably not going to wait around.

A lot of guys who end up in the friend zone do so because they either never make "the move" or think they are making the right moves but aren't. For example, being her therapist is not the right move. Sitting there and while she pours her heart out to you and passively nodding on occasion isn't going to win her over. If, at the end, you took her hand to comfort her, however, isn't so passive, and if she is receptive to you as more than a friend, she generally won't have a problem with this. Then you could do something romantic if she is in the mood, like say (while holding her hand) "Hey, come on, I know something that might cheer you up," and maybe take her to get ice cream or to a romantic spot where you talk some more, this time you doing your share of the talking, maybe about something unrelated to her problem, then that might transition you to the romantic zone in her mind.

You need to be a non-threatening yet active participant in the relationship and show her who you are or she can't connect to you as anything more than a friend.


I think the tricky part is, how to do this smoothly. I liken it to merging into the proper lane on a freeway interchange.

I disagree. I have really great male friends, super guys. Just because they weren't the right guys for me to marry (and why date if you know you aren't right to marry) doesn't mean they were a "fail" in any way, shape, or form. It's not like I was some super prize or anything. We just weren't right for each other when it came to love.

I really wish people here would get this: being wrong for a particular women doesn't make a fail. Most of us are wrong for 99.9999% of the people out there. But most of us actually like and think highly of a much higher percent. You marry 1 person; you become friends with dozens, maybe hundreds. Looking for love means looking for that one unique person who is suited to you, and that is no easy task. If all the right things aren't lined up, one of you has got to call it, ie say that "this isn't going any where." Most women don't date just to date, they date to form a permanent relationship. Which means they are considering all sorts of day to day compatibility things that have NOTHING to do with being a good person, an interesting person, or even an attractive person.

It always amuses me on this board to see how the comments from those in successful relationships get ignored, while those who are still out there looking affirm each others misconceptions. Things haven't changed that much; I know the score. I won't chime in on the stuff that is trendy, but there is nothing trendy about how people pick who they'll be in a long term relationship with. I dated for some 20 years before getting married; there is very little I haven't seen or heard or done when it comes to dating mistakes and dating glories. I actually learned something in all that. Eventually.

Yes, some women use the "friend" card as a nice way to turn guys down. But sometimes being a friend is a super good thing, and friends introduce friends to friends and family, and those connections lead to dates that have a leg to stand on.

I married a guy that my sister had been friends with for 3 years. She introduced us.

My sister married a guy that my other sister had been friends with 2 years. The other sister introduced them.

Neither of us would have met our spouses if those guys had refused to accept a friend card.

I agree there is no set time limit. And things can change. My husband wasn't in the space to date when we first met, so that was that. Because he was friends with my sister, I ran into him every half year or so for a while, and we both were kind of shy, and I dated someone else, and so on.

Eventually he was in the space to date again, so he asked my sister if he had a chance with me (my other relationship had ended). And that was that.

As for being a friend-style therapist not being the right move, I think I disagree. I mean, while being a great listener is not exactly a romantic move, it does build a good foundation for a future relationship. But, one would have to assertively change the nature of the relationship when the time was right. Usually if a strong pattern has been established, you have to take the awkward step of basically asking about changing the relationship. No one wants their best friend to just start kissing them when they aren't ready for it (but if she's dropping hints, that's another matter). It's a super scary step, to ask to change the course of the relationship, but if you've had time to know it is what you want, well, you've just got to ask, don't you? I know a few married couples who were long term friends first, and they have cute stories about how it changed. Yeah, how to do that smoothly ... very tricky.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AngjEmgVZ8[/youtube]

Ya its like that..

I guess I'm screwed then. It takes at least a month if not more (more often it will take years) of knowing someone to even develop feelings for her at all. Before that point, I won't have any attraction. From there it just steadily builds over time.


And you think all guys aren't after such things? Sure, there may be a lot of short-sighted guys out there, but honestly, I'm looking for much the same thing as you mention there. The only difference is that i'm not looking to get married right away. Instead i'm looking for someone merely to have a long term relationship with and that I could possibly see getting married with at some point in the future. I already mentioned that it takes a while to feel attracted at all. Well, it takes a hell of a lot longer to feel comfortable with the idea of marriage with a particular person. Which is why I have to worry about it now instead of 7 years from now...

Someone could fall for you at first sight.

Yes, but I think Toad's point is that the girl will get tired of waiting for him to make a move before Toad feels any romantic attraction towards her. Then when he finally does, the girl will no longer be interested or have found someone else in the meantime. Basically, there is no way Toad will ask a girl out in a few weeks, regardless of how interested she is in him.

True- I dunno if most people instantaneously have romantic feelings for someone, but I have to get to KNOW them first-
plus, your relationships can morph not only from romantic-possibility to "mere" friends, but from close friends to romantic partners, as people themselves are far from static....
forget four years, you might have known someone a DECADE and because your lives, wants, and needs become aligned, those feelings might start to develop whereas they hadn't before.

I think that pissed alot of women off. I avoided using the word sex at all, because that's not the end goal (believe it or not). I believe that human relationships, whatever the nature, strive on intimacy...not lust. It could be emotional or physical, and it can have nothing to do with sex. I think as people we feel the need to be connected to eachother, but are deathly scared to be at the same time. Intimacy is our attempt to not feel alone, and ALL relationships of any nature are tied to that. In my opinion.



It's easy...most guys don't have one, referring mostly to sexual attraction though, we lose love interest constantly. Basically, men are more shallow...if we were once attracted to you, we will almost always be. Where I believe women seek something deeper right off the bat, and will dig till they find it, and leave when they find it's not what they are looking for.



I'm mostly referring to situations where both parties are romantically or physically interested in each other at the same time, and something happens to change how the woman views the man, but still wants to be part of his life in some way. And of course it's all in the mind...isn't everything? Your entire life and how you view it comes from your perception of reality in your minds eye. Nothing is what it is until you believe it is as such. Basic Shakespeare 101.



THIS is my biggest problem. Being active. This line almost single-handedly answers my question. I love the analogy, considering I get cut-off a lot it seems accurate.



THIS. I knew it in the back of my head, but I needed to hear it. Coming out of a 10 year marriage myself, it's not currently something I think I'm ready for even considering. This explains why a lot of my current interests are suddenly giving me the cold shoulder, and I deserve it. You made so many valid points that I agree with, and needed to hear (or read). Actually one girl I asked out, that was logically a perfect match, told me that she was looking to get married and didn't want someone who wasn't eventually interested in doing so. Went in one ear and out the other I guess. Thank you so much for the posts.



Thank you, I can relate because I have gotten lost walking across the street before. I don't know if having no sense of direction is an AS trait or not, but I've ended up crossing state lines (several times) on a simple drive to the store.

P.S. : I like your screen name. Good show. Commander Riker should have been Captain, though.


Your dark, dry sarcasm is the sunshine to my rainy day.



Wanna hang out?

DeathGoths video made me realize I should clarify one thing. Obviously, if you think you are madly in love with someone, the friend card won't work. Not a situation in which you can be friends. But usually you already had a friend card, right, or you wouldn't know the person well enough to think it was real? And if you didn't ... It Isn't madly in love, but madly in lust, and that was never real enough to get very far, anyway.

And the video ... OK, it's funny, but who seriously thinks it's a good move to throw aside a woman's obvious need to talk and say "kiss me?". It comes across as totally self centered. If you want to be in the romance zone, show some sense that you "get" her, something beyond just lust - - not that there is anything wrong with lust, but it can't be the only thing there.

Michael, best of luck to you. We all have phases in our lives we just aren't in the space to date seriously. Sometimes you can find people in a similar space to hang with for a while, sometimes you can't. I do confess, I'm kind of smiling thinking of some of the guys I went on dates with during those periods, or just met up with on the social circuit .... Totally wrong for me, but they made me either laugh, or feel pretty, or ... Well, going out of your norm and knowing it is going nowhere can be fun. But, there isn't more than a few outings in that line before you've got to let the other person move on, and even listen to them tell you how wonderful some new person is, if that is what is in the cards for them ... Everyone just has to be clear about what page they are on from the start. Which .. I think is a lot easier for women, since the pool of women not wanting to find serious right now is usually smaller than the pool of guys not wanting to find serious right now.

Riker should have become a Captain, but not of the Enterprise. I <3 Picard too much for that.

I got lost once in a neighborhood I had lived in for over a year. My husband found me sobbing at the side of the road in the opposite direction I was supposed to have gone.