Post feminism patchwork

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As I see it, the current state of inter-gender romantic relations is a patchwork of pre and post feminist ideas from the latter half of the 20th century, with no sign of a system to replace the pre feminist relationship progression. I’m wondering what peoples thoughts are regarding the following; am I wrong, what do you think will happen next, what do you think should happen next, if anything?

Last edited by ICY on 29 May 2011, 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

It would help if you elaborated a bit more. Definitions of 'feminism' vary.

Also, can you give a bit more description of what you mean by 'pre' and 'post' systems?

Here are the definitions I go by:

Feminist: (1) Person of either gender favoring equal rights and opportunities for men and women; (2) Person who is "gender-blind" when it comes to rights and opportunities for men and women.

Feminazi: Person, usually female, who insists that men are at fault for all the misfortunes that plague the human species, and who seeks the subjugation of males to female domination.

Feminista: Person, usually female, who delights in the humiliation and exploitation of men as a means of reparation for the humiliation and exploitation of women by men everywhere; past, present, or future; real or imagined.

That's the definition I go by too. I don't use the other versions- not because I think people like that don't exist (they do) but the labels are frequently unfairly applied to anyone who dares questions an inequality.

It annoys me somewhat when people harp on about how the world was much better back in the day when things were legally unequal. Not saying it's perfect now, but it's certainly an improvement for pretty much everyone who wasn't at the top of the social pecking order.

My definition of feminism is the movement stating that women should be treated as equal to men.

By pre feminism I mean the time when the relationship progression was clearly defined. Guy would ask girl out, he’d pay for everything on the date, repeat unless girl refuses etcetera. This being the time when gender inequality and strict gender roles where seen by the society at large as normal.

By post I mean the time when the above was no longer certain due to the system it was an extension of no longer having the hold on society it did before, although I personally don’t think that gender equality has happed in the UK yet.

I'm not sure if that was the typical pre-feminist set-up. Depending on how far you go back (and the move towards equality didn't happen overnight) the suitor was as likely to ask the girl's father for her hand than ask her out on a date.

Also, with regards to 'inter-gender romantic relations' what you are describing is just the 'first date' scenario; what came afterwards was often a completely different ball game. The woman in that scenario gets wooed, married and then becomes a glorified domestic servant. If she had a job she often legally couldn't keep it after marriage, so unless she inherited, she became completely dependant on her husband.

In my opinion, the move away from strictly enforced gender roles in relationships is a positive step. Looking around though, I don't think things have changed all that much; men still do most of the asking out, the buying dinner etc. as you describe and a lot of women are more than happy to be 'feminine'. It's not my personal cup of tea, but at least this time it's a choice for both parties.

I was thinking latter half of 20th century onwards for my time period due to the limits of my knowledge of history, however I take your point about the changes that have occurred regarding this matter before the mid 20th century. I agree that the equally movements weren’t just feminism, however to my mind feminism does stick out as one of the most overt.

I covered the first date scenario with etcetera at the end in the hope of referring to the situation you describe while being as text efficient as possible, I apologise for the lack of clarity.

Regarding the lack of on the ground change, these activities do seem to be the subject of a level debate that I don’t believe would have occurred pre-feminism.
I also agree that women having the choice of whether to act within the traditional roles or not is a positive step.

I personally wonder if, due to the amount of contention the present situation is causing, in time a new system will come into being. If it does, I wonder what aspects of the more conservative systems will be retained and how much influence more liberal views would have had on its creation.

Last edited by ICY on 29 May 2011, 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Its simple: Whoever initiated the date pays for it. Since this is almost always the man, the man pays. If a woman asks ME out on a date that wasn't my idea, I'd expect her to pay for it. This pretty much never happens, though.

rather it be split 50/50 honestly. Of course that wont work for society because humans are a bunch of filthy apes who will always **** up everything. Humanity really should just die off to be honest. (yes, i am oozing the sarcasm today, I can care less simply because I don't.)

as for going back on topic, I will say there are two different "flavors" of feminist. We have the good type that just want equality. Then we have the extremists who don't fit the original definition at all who will harp on and on about female superiority and blame men for everything, even going so far as to commit hate crimes out of it (don't say it doesn't happen, it does, been a local case of domestic violence due to it.) The second definition fits the feminazi label to a T, and i actually dated someone who wound up being like that, and I basically ended it right then and there.

What will happen next? Well, first we have to see who wins the election for president of Guyland. That'll have a big effect, probably determining whether proposition 5 passes in the intergender congressional board. Then it is clear which system will replace the old one:

If one examines neocultural feminism, one is faced with a choice: either accept the precapitalist paradigm of consensus or conclude that the old system is capable of significance, but only if the conceptual paradigm of consensus is valid; otherwise, we can assume that the raison d’etre of the pre-feminist rumination is social comment. In a sense, the subject is contextualised into a structural rationalism that includes language as a whole.

Thus, many materialisms concerning not, in fact, narrative, but subnarrative exist. The premise of neocultural feminism implies that truth is distinct from culture.

But if neodialectic discourse holds, we have to choose between neocultural feminism and patriarchialist nihilism. Any number of deappropriations concerning the conceptual paradigm of consensus may be found.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geQyrBGS_60[/youtube]

In response to the video: Wow, I'm a feminist blogger and even I found that list to be really ridiculous. That b***h needs to be kicked into a pit of flaming spikes. Seriously. D:

Absolutely! This has nothing to do with "equality", it is simply good manners.

Ain't it the truth?

I can't count the number of times that women have invited me out on a date, and then acted like a real mother-of-a-puppy when the bill came and it was handed to her. Probably the same number of times that I've been told "But the man always pays!" and "You cheap b*****d!"

Each time, it was the last date I ever had with those women.

That’s the sort of thing I was trying to get across in my opening post, although I seems I shot wide of the mark.
From my point of view the present situation and be summarised in game (not the PUA system) analogy. Everyone has their own rule book but no-one has the complete guide.

Well, let me put it this way, then: There are girls out there who will never, ever pay no matter what the circumstance because (from their point of view) the man ALWAYS pays. Period. There is only one reason to go out with a girl like this more than once: The possibility of getting laid. If that's important to you and you have the money to spend on her, knock yourself out.

If, on the other hand, you want a girl you actually respect, then allow the circumstances to dictate who pays. Your odds of pre-relationship sex go down, but your good girlfriend chances go up.