When AS Traits can Really Impact Dating

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I know a guy who is very intelligent, educated and insightful. He has a lot to offer in a future relationship...the problem is that he'll meet a girl and then not get a second date. He is very frustrated about this. The thing is, I have observed him in a variety of settings, and I have a clear idea as to why this is happening. It's not that I don't like him as a person, but I feel that the impression he gives to his dates is not reflective of who he really is.

It is very apparent that he has AS...he is one of those guys that after a few minutes of being around him you will notice that "something is up" with him. His affect is very withdrawn and disconnected from the situations he is in...it's an aura that reads "back away" rather than "I am interested in your company". He struggles with emotions, has a lot of odd behaviours, and also stims. Again, these aren't bad things, I'm just concerned about other's reactions.

Most notably, he will only talk about himself and not once in the few years I have known him have I observed him asking about others. This is his main impediment in terms of finding someone, because in a relationship, you have to listen to the other person and take genuine interest in them...and he's not very good at doing either.

This concern is out of genuine empathy for the guy. I just worry about him because a person meeting him for the first time may not understand any of these things, and will quickly misinterpret them as selfishness, egocentricity or pompousness. I have no doubt that he will find someone as he has many great qualities to offer, but I believe that it is his specific impairments that are getting in the way of him landing a date, as seeing these things may not lead to a good first impression.

He does not seem like the type who would advocate or disclose his AS though, though it would help him. I could offer him some help with all the social stuff, but I have no idea if he would want it or not. My guess is...probably not.

If you were this guy, what would you do if you found out you came across in a way that could limit your chances? Would you advocate for yourself? Look for help from someone who knows her stuff? Or disregard this fact altogether?

You've just described me perfectly, and at my age, I despair of fixing it.

I'm interested in hearing if others have any advice though...

I guess because I have never been on a date I guess the AS has a major impact.

I still remember advice women have given me but I often wasn't able to act on it right away. I didn't solicit advice either. Maybe he can do better with it.

If you dump a lot of information on him and there is immediate improvement, I'd be shocked. But he may remember it when his ability catches up to his intentions.

working with aspies on changing stuff like that is best done in baby steps
first identify the most pressing problem which is him not asking about the other person.
Also he needs to disclose his AS so the date wont come to her own conclusions about whats up with him.
and once he 80 percent masters one area, then go to the next issue.

If he is really interested in a relationship, then you should tell him what you observed and offer to assist him creating a better 1st impression.
I think he would be welcome to your advise.

Jojo

I wouldn't want to have to change who I am to find a relationship. I think it would important for him to try to find a way to work around his AS traits instead of trying to change them because trying to change who he is could make him feel even more unaccepted; that's been my experience. Maybe he could get to know women as friends a while either online or off who would be able to see past those AS characteristics or maybe he could try to meet & date a different type of woman that would me more accepting or not as bothered by those AS traits

changing yourself in order to get a significant other is not a good idea; you'd be living a total lie; besides, he doesn't have it extremely bad; he gets firsts dates, a lot of us here can't make that claim.

however, if you wish to help him, you can try to convince the girls he meets up with (after the first date) to go on a second date with him, becouse he is bad at showing his 'true self', and that he actually is a very nice person.
be careful to avoid and term of autism though, that is something only the person himself should be mentioning, unless he asked you to.

Has he considered that he has some trouble expressing emotions and it may seem like he´s self absorbed/not enjoying an activity when he actually would love to get to know the person much better but is too afraid to ask them questions because he doesnt know whats appropiate and what not and he is having a great time before a date?(just so the other person is somewhat better prepared for the date and the misunderstandings about him disappear).

This may scare some of his possible dates away but if he is that way theres no way it would have worked out between them on the first place.

ok, so there are a few things you've mentioned, but this one stands out.

here on the board, we see people with varying abilities to reciprocate conversation or mutual attraction. having AS does not exclude people from being able to do these things, but there is a broad range involved. just reading the Hot Aspies Pictures & Chat Room thread, you see many people who can engage in conversation very well (at least in written form). people in there are showing interest in each other, asking questions, being encouraging, getting each other talking. at the other extreme is people who "post-and-run" in threads without ever truly interacting. some people who post and run will occasionally complain that members don't seem to want to connect with them but the difficulty does not have an external origin.

i don't know if reciprocity can be learned. it seems likely, as some people do improve.... but maybe they have to want to change. so.... an important consideration is whether your friend would want to change, or if he just thinks that the problem is other people or just dumb luck. i am skeptical because i keep encountering people who say they want advice but really just want to commiserate about how the world should change. you may want to ask him outright if he is interested in some suggestions that could assist him with his dating success, and be frank that it would require major changes in how he interacts with people. and you could even offer to practice with conversation if he agrees.

i don't think that coaching someone in conversational skills is necessarily changing the core of his being. it's helping him to express himself better so that he can build a relationship. my advice is based on the assumption that he is interested in hearing a woman talk about herself. i have encountered people who had conversational problems, which can be worked around, but then there are individuals who honestly don't care to hear anything about other people. they are so focused on themselves and their interests that they can't be bothered to listen. i don't have advice for that issue.

this aspect of being able to interact in a conversation is extremely important to me in the people i have dated. they don't have to be perfect conversationalists, but if they do not try to get to know me at all i will not go on a second date. i am just not willing to push myself on someone who seems like they can't be bothered, regardless of the reasons behind the problem. i need to feel like the other person wants to know me and is interested in me as a person, and the only way i can tell is the way he acts and the things he says. i can't second-guess what is inside his head.

I wonder if the hesitancy to ask the other person questions or to respond to what they are saying might stem from processing issues. I am thinking that perhaps many aspies monologue at other people because their minds don't allow them to focus beyond themselves and listen properly to what the other person has to contribute. I think that the same problem might arise on forums, too, where the person reads all of the messages in a thread but is not capable of responding without expending huge amounts of mental energy. Plus, with some folks, I am convinced that when many of their previous attempts to do so have failed, they give up quickly and no longer want to put in the effort since it didn't pay off as well as they expected it to.

I think the most crucial part here is not teaching conversation skills (which might get him a bit further, but will most likely be quickly revealed as being rote and fake), but helping him understand his own limitations and teaching him how to explain these limitations to others. No one is a mind reader, and if people see that there is something odd going on but have no idea what it is, they will be confused and subsequently repelled by the individual in question. However, from my own past experiences, careful explanations have been met with much acceptance and I believe that doing so openly has helped me acquire a lot of my close friendships. The disclosure of the label does not seem necessary here and might even be detrimental with people who are influenced by negative stereotypes and preconceptions.

^^^^i get what you are saying, MathGirl, but what i was also saying is that... an explanation would not cut it with me, because i could not date a person who couldn't at least put in a small effort to try to mutually interact with me in some way. the friend described has *never* asked a person about themselves in the years the OP has known him. some effort will be required if he wants to have someone feel cared about.

i don't think it would come across as fake unless he laid it on so thick that he was a completely different person, and i do not think anyone would advocate that. and it wouldn't be truly fake for him to make an occasional enquiry as to what someone else thinks and feels, because presumably he cares to know.

It's hard to say whether he cares to know or not, though. He might just be obsessed with the idea of being with someone, while not taking into account the dispositions of the specific person he is dealing with (partner). I don't know if that's the case for sure, but if that IS the case, it would be a difficult situation to deal with, indeed.

Also, those are your personal preferences and people are different. I wouldn't mind being in a scenario you have described myself, as long as we both have a common interest and can interact around that interest.

I am a firm believer in that there is someone out there for everyone.

Last edited by MathGirl on 28 Sep 2011, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think you're on to something, I definitely have this problem. but I also genuinely don't care about some aspects of other people's lives and would never ask about those, even though it's somewhat expected by the society. there is a chance that OP's friend genuinely doesn't care about the other person at all (I don't mean that in an offensive way) or should just try to date people who don't need to be encouraged to speak about themselves (someone more like himself?)

To this day I have limited interest in other people. But some. That was just one part of my problem when it was more serious. But everyone has some range and some potential. It's not easy to move that ball and I suspect several factors need to line up to make advances. There is a real developmental inertia to overcome.

But to just play Popeye with this, "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam. Toot. Toot", is counterproductive.

it really, really annoys me that it took me 4 paragraphs to express what you just summarised into a few sentences.

If I'm not brief I'll bore myself and never finish the thought.