how much should a guy spend on a woman?

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A large portion of fish and chips and a half-litre bottle of Coke and you should be sorted. Any woman who wants more than that just has wants in life above her station.

By the bay.

$17,851.62 ; give or take for historic, future, and international currency values.

Who's spending all of your money.

Oh its not that I'm opposed to people opening the door for eachother I hold the door open for someone coming in behind me or an elderly or handicapped person, someone carrying something etc. It's not about manners. It's about being on a date with somoene and they will like jump ahead of you and open the door and stand back .. like you're some sort of royalty or something. It is extremely awkward and they do it just because I am a female and they think it expected behavior. That is the one that irritates me. It also confused me very badly for a very long time I would be like: what... why is he just standing there.. why won't he go inside... oh.. crap.. is he waiting for me? .. wow, this is awkward *walk through door finally*
That's why I started scolding my boyfriend of the time for it. I was like dude just walk through the door if you get there first, there's no reason to stand back and wait for me to go through. It's just awkward! And I find the fact that it is based on my bioligical gender moraly objectable.

They just didn't understand that being treated "like a lady" in some ways can be construed as not being treated like a person. For many women, femaleness is a huge part of how they self-identify, whereas for others, like you, who you are as a person comes first. (And maleness, for many men, is also a highly-prized aspect of how they view who they are.) So, for some, gender-specific treatment is offensive, while others just feel properly respected by it. I had a feminist friend who took my offering to pump her gas at a filling station as if I had hauled off and slapped her in the face! She angrily dressed me down right then and there. I had to explain to her that I wasn't offering because she was a woman, I was offering because she was doing the driving, and I simply felt like reciprocating. I was taught that as a child -- that it's good for me to pump the gas for my parents or anyone else in whose car I am the passenger.

Last edited by Ragtime on 15 Nov 2011, 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

i've never heard of someone pumping gas for the driver like that. it's a nice tradition but it's not common i guess. so i would assume it to be because i am female too. i don't think it would bother me, but i would definitely think the offer was gender-related.

Well, see, now you're touching on another issue that I find many "minority" groups falling into. The "It's because I'm a _blank_" mentality. There's a definate problem with assuming someone is treating you some way based on some physical property about yourself. It stems from insecurity, imo. Sure, a lot of times it does happen as a result of race/gender/ect but not always and jumping to that conclusion before assessing the facts is a fallacy - it oftentimes indicates that YOU (the one getting offended) is the one who is the sexist/racist because you're so aware of your differences that you assume the other person is too.

Sorry about the extensive derailment of this thread, I find this subject interesting: I could go on about this stuff all day I have given extensive thought to these sorts of mindsets as a genetic female with more of a tpyical male-style brain.

i have a typical male-style brain also.

i have heard of men pumping gas for women due to their gender and i used to see it a lot when i was a child, but as i stated above i have never heard of people doing it out of respect for all drivers in general. in my whole life i have never seen a male passenger pump gas for another male for example, unless the driver was 93 years old or physically disabled.

so my assumption would be based on an actual cultural phenomenon. it is a reasonable asumption that the gas pumper experienced the same cultural phenomena as me. it has nothing to do with awareness of my differences.

Sorry, I was referring to the woman in Ragtime's post - not you.

I can see why she might have assumed it was because of gender for the reasons you stated, hyperlexian. I just see this happen on other occasions where it is not so clear cut and I see a lot of people jump to "oh it's because I'm a girl, isn't it?!?!" when I don't think its always warranted.

Myself, I don't really assume that anything has anything to do with gender unless it is really blatant. I probably miss things that DO have to do with gender because I overlook it. That's the reason that I used to be very confused in highschool when boys would open doors for me, it never crossed my mind that I = woman and women = get doors opened for them by men. So I'd just stand there and be confused as to why they were not going through the door themselves.

oh i get what you mean, and i have had the same thing happen. with experience i understand those traditions more than i did when i was younger. less awkward, but i do remember doing the sort of dance at the doorway wondering who was supposed to go first.

Well... that would seem a little gay, so we homophobic guys try to steer clear for clarity's sake -- and because, let's face it, men generally have a stronger drive to do things for themselves (generally! please understand that's what I mean).

But if a male friend of mine who was driving were going to enter the convenience store part of a gas station to buy something, and he was also going to pump gas afterward, I'd offer to do the latter. It's more efficient that way, and I could be thought of as a dick for not offering. (Oh, the tightrope we walk in the social world...)

So, does gender bleed into it a little? Sure, I won't deny that. I personally enjoy the differences between the genders, and subtle social traditions based on that. I'm one of those people who, like also many women not just men, feel glad I'm the gender I am. I do consider it a complement when a woman or man shows, in the way they talk to me, that they are aware I'm not androgynous! (I mean, what, should we remove "he" and "she" from usage except when speaking deliberately and speficially of the genetalia? Are "he" and "she" offensive to hear? No, except when it's clearly meant to diss -- just like any other word.) Maybe it's a Southern thing. I've lived in the South my whole life. I do "give a crap" about gender. I just don't treat people badly based on it. Southern women interpret gender-specific treatment as fully appropriate and even a complement, WHEN it isn't meant to diss.

Last edited by Ragtime on 15 Nov 2011, 12:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.

It never, ever happens here in the UK either.

well, Ragtime.... just like you have the option of liking the gender roles, that female friend of yours had just as much right to dislike the roles. and she was correct - your gesture was based on her gender. you see it as polite / she saw it as offensive, and there isn't any right or wrong there.

Lah-dee-dah....



My head hurts.