Attraction-Aversion & Fight-Flight

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Just curious ...

Can someone explain the rationale behind attraction-aversion and why an interested aspie showing all the signs of a crush would take to fight-flight if their crush told them they liked them? Would they even take to "flight speech" saying something untrue just to avoid the uncomfortableness they are feeling? Do you realize the implications of whatever statement you make? Do you contemplate -- OMG, I'm an idiot, why did I say that! Is it possible to have a panic attack? What would one look like? And how would you like us NT girls to respond to such? Is it difficult for aspie males to move from the crush stage to the dating stage? Why do you then get so jumpy when the girl finally responds to you?

It seems to me it's a real Catch-22. If you aspie guys are so lonely and a crush finally returns your feelings and is sweet on you, then why panic run away, etc. Not all girls are aggressive or out to manipulate/ridicule guys. We NT girls do see you staring, we notice when you smile, we see you when you blush, we see you panic, we see you make yourself scarce, we see you fiddle, we see when you turn around and glance, we see you when you mimic us. We know why we mimic us. And if the NT girl is still around after the panic attack or the fight-flight, then aren't we quality girls in your eyes deserving of a cahnce? We're still there not laughing, not ridiculing, but there trying yet another way to make you comfortable around us. And we in turn internalize the shutdowns/panic attacks/flight as rejection. It's almost like NT girls are set up to fail. And at what point would you like us to give up? How would an NT girl know this? Because the minute we don't say hello or approach because our own feelings are hurt, then you guys will internalize and think you did something wrong. Maybe you guys aren't even aware of any of this bc you never give us a chance to get to know you.

I'm obviously not allowed to get to know my crush better & that was all I wanted -- a chance to do so. So much for putting MYSELF out there.

Not all aspies are the same, this is something between you and your crush.

Would it be possible to tell the guy what you typed here ?. If you don't ask you will never know for sure what happened.

I've been on the Aspie side of this problem way too many times.  I can describe my responses and hopefully they might shed some light on your situation.

As an Aspie, I like it when people make clear, unambiguous statements.  I don't have a problem with analogy or metaphor when it helps to clarify ideas, but in general I often don't get what NTs mean when they are being subtle.  It's a foreign language to me.  Because I don't understand, I feel the best policy is to say little or not respond at all.  In fact, because I'm confused, I just want to go somewhere else.

Because Aspie's live in a world where communication is often unpredictable and meanings can shift inexplicably based on context or tone of voice or to whom it is said, we generally learn to distrust any communication that might hurt us.  Because Aspie's tend to be tone deaf to the subtleties of intimate communication, most have had the experience of grossly mis-assessing  the romantic intent of another person and then suffering a great deal of humiliation as a result.  With this experience, I have learned to always be very cautious and wary when a woman appears interested in me.  The safest response is to get away.

It hurts and there are many situations that I can look back on and with a great deal of regret.  On the last day of class one year in high school, a very pretty girl asked me to kiss her.  She wrote her phone number in my yearbook and asked me to call.  At the time I thought it was odd and of course she really didn't mean it. No one that pretty would bother with a guy like me. Over 20 years later a mutual friend mentioned that she had a crush on me and my reaction was "why didn't anyone tell me?". Of course the absurdity is that she was telling me about as loudly and directly as she could and I still had no clue.  For me, it was safer to believe that she wasn't interested so I didn't have to deal with the emotional turmoil of intimacy.

About 10 years ago I met a woman in a writer's group.  She was dating someone at the time, but after we got to know each other a bit, she directly asked me if I wanted to have an affair with her.  There was nothing ambiguous in her question.  I suppose my first question was "won't your boyfriend mind?"  all I could think of were the complications that were likely to arise from an affair.  Her boyfriend might feel compelled to beat the crap out of me.  If I fell in love with a girl who was so casual about having an affair, I'd very likely end up in the same situation her current boyfriend was about to deal with.  And shouldn't I be wary of diseases since she seemed willing and eager to jump into bed with someone she didn't know too well?

Anyone with good sense, Aspie or NT, would avoid that situation, but I still regret some of the choices I made, even though I know they were the right ones.  I only describe it to illustrate that despite this woman's very direct and unequivocal proposal, mostly I could only see where I would get hurt.  I admit that one side of me wanted to be incredibly stupid and jump into bed with her, but as in every other instance in my life, caution won out over desire.

There were a few other women who were not quite so direct.  I have had crushes on women who, as near as I can tell, had crushes on me.  But when they have expressed more that just a casual interest, my own crush would dissolve away.  I would start to see only the negative qualities in the woman.  Thinking of what life would be like with her, I would only see how my own interests would have to be set aside and I would have to constrict my life to fit into hers.

Obviously this is an irrational reaction.  In the face of acceptance and affection, I tend to see only restriction or else I suspect the woman of leading me on specifically so that she can hurt me later on.  Is that likely?  No.  Intellectually I can see that my reactions are wrong.  In fact with one possible exception, I know that all the women I have had crushes on are decent, compassionate people who would never do the things I fear.  But that doesn't stop the overwhelming fear.

I suppose for me, it's a case of "better the devil you know that the one you don't." I feel safer in isolation, loneliness and unfulfilled longing than I do taking that risky step into unknown intimacy.  I'm nearly 47 years old and I've never dated anyone because of these fears.  It is possible that this man you have a crush on will never be able to get beyond the fear that you are just leading him on so you can hurt him later.  Or he may just feel so foolish and inept at social situations that the discomfort he might feel in your presence is just too much to take.

Have you ever tried to pet a feral cat?  Even if you befriend it over the course of many years, feeding it and letting it stay under your house, no matter how much it might learn to trust you, it still remains feral and will probably never allow you to pet it.  Sometimes the best you can hope for is a distant trust.  When it comes to intimacy, Aspies are often like feral cats.  The closest some will ever come to intimacy is being willing to sit 10 feet away.

Simple answer, an aspie guy is not going to realize you are interested unless you tell him outright that you are interested. Even if he picks up on some of your signals he most likely has negative experiences with misinterpreting those signals in the past and likely will not trust his own judgement of the situation. If you want an aspie guy to get it, you need to walk up to him and tell him "Hey, I like you. I'd like to spend more time with you." Anything short of that and he's just not going to realize why you're acting the way you do around him. The normal feminine methods of signaling attraction just plain do not work on an aspie.

I can't explain why, but I know I do that as well. I agree with jagatai, you do stuff in situations like that to protect yourself. If you've grown up unable to work out if anyone is interested in you err on the cautious side. There's also other issues that can play on your mind. My experience is that you over think a situation and soon all the negative outcomes and aspects plague you. He could have problems moving on from a crush and doing real stuff like dating as that will expose him to more situations and emotions that may have in the past gone badly.

Everybody does act differently, but I can say that there have been times when I have sabotaged myself (or saved myself from looking like an idiot, it's never clear) and you do hate yourself for doing it. Not that it's great news for you, but I'd be confident that he'll run that situation over and over in his headand wished he could have played it better.

You might also need to figure out if you want to get to know him better or you'd like to go out with him. If it's the former then you might just need to create an opportunity when he just talking about something that interest him in a general, casual way. If it's the latter than you will probably just have to be straight and unambiguous and tell him that. (I hope this last bit makes sense, not 100% sure I can get the right tone, just trying to highlight that the approach you take will very much depend on the outcome you want)

this is actually a trained reaction, even though many aspies themselves dont even realise this.
a lot of aspergians and autistics were bullied in high school, including pranks and practical jokes where they get invited to some social event only to be ridiculed to the point of running away crying...

if you openly show interest in someone that has been through that, especially if you look like someone who would be part of the popular group, the emotions of the high-school period resurface and cause the fleeing responce you mentioned.
this is indeed a catch-22, which is worsened by the fact that subtility usually doesn't work on us, so your only option is the same flat-out, in your face interest that caused the harm all those years ago.

the only thing i can think of that can avoid this problem is, probarbly counter-inituatively, NOT showing interest.
try to become his friend, maybe even a "guy" friend at first; become a part of his onsessive interest if he has one and tevelop a bond of thrust first.


as a point of example, i had a stereotypical situation two weeks ago:
i was in a bar after visiting a concert with a group of friends when this girl started talking to me; i managed to talk back a bit (i had a good day), and we started dancing in, what i assumed to be, a friendly way.
however, after some time passed, she suddenly pulled me closer by my arm and asked if i had anything planned for the night.
this sudden physical contact, together with the unusual question (for the time of the day) got me into a fight/flight mode; i excused to the toilet to collect my thoughts and, once there, regressed into panic; i stealthily went to grab my coat and ran away...

next day, all my friends questioned me about the girl and if i had a number or something, this triggered an aftermath as i didn't recover from the panic yet, and didn't understand the interest: i was just being friendly to a girl on her own after all...

(yes, i do understand what happened now, but i also know that in a next simular situation, i'd act exactly the same)