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Hi,
I have been feeling awful because I have been going out with someone who I really like who also happens to have AS. I thought it was going well and that he liked me but yesterday he told me he just wanted to go out as friends for now. (By the way I am not sure if this means he does not like me or something else? I have heard people tell you this when they dont like you?) I am wondering if he does not like me because I am too quiet and have communication problems as I have been told this was a problem with NTs I have dated. This makes me feel very bad because if I cant relate to someone else with AS who can I relate to? Anyone have any advice or know what he could mean by go out as friends for now?
Thanks!

I can see where you are comming from. I am on the same boat in a sense that I seem to be even "too much of an aspie" compared to other aspies. When I read most aspies on this board, they appear quite normal to me: they have circle of friends, they date, and so forth. But in my case I am a complete loner who doesn't even know anyone's name. So it seems like my Asperger is more severe than anyone else's. Perhaps the same applies to you. I never dated an aspie, but if I did I am pretty sure I would have been rejected just as much as I am being rejected by NT-s.

I know what I am about to say is going to be a bit off topic but I have to bring it up because this is one thing about NT-s I am pissed at. You said he wants to be friends FOR NOW. Literal interpretation of the words "for now" suggests "yes we can date at some point but lets get to konw each other first". This is quite reasonable. I mean shouldn't something big (relationship) start from something small? However, in reality what they mean is "I don't want to date you ever, not in a million yaers; lets be friends, period". Yet they say "for now" just to be polite. I really hate it when NT-s say stuff just to be polite.

Also, saying "for now" in a context of rejection logically implies that if one is liked they will jump into relationship the first second. If thats the case, this further implies that one is hard pressed to make a snap judgement on a person whether to date them or not the moment they met. And, indeed, thats what happens. According to the rules of the dating game, first i mpression is all-deciding factor. And this is unfair: what if someone had a bad day? Why judge someone by first impression?

Yes, I can realy relate! I hate snap judgments! I also hate when people don't tell you exactly what they mean just to be polite. It is so confusing. Being an Aspie I would think he meant it literally but because we had already gone out a couple of time not as just friends I am not sure?

I 100% agree with you! I just don't understand why most people don't notice anything wrong with snap judgmenets. In fact majority of people "take for granted" that they have to make their decision based on first impression. And I just don't understand why people take for granted something that is actually contradicting common sense! I think people need to take time to get to know each other before making decisions. Yet most ppl just don't!



It is not just confusing but also angering. It conveys a rather pessimistic world view: if something looks semi-good it is actually "bad". Its like they give you some hope but then they "overlook" the very hope they have given you as if that hope "doesn't matter". They also "expect" you to be insensitive by ignoring the little piece of something they have given you.



Well if you are truly desperate it is still possible to try and twist things so that it sounds like he meant "for now". Suppose you are working with the tutor, and the tutor was planning to do one chapter a day. So when day 2 came they try to work with you on Chapter 2. Then it looks clear you can't follow Chapter 2. So then they say "lets stick to Chapter 1 for now". And in this case they really mean "for now"; eventually they WILL go to Chapter 2, just a bit later than planned.

So maybe what happened between you and him is similar. He tried to jump in a relationship really fast. But then he found that it was difficult for either of you to keep up with a pace of a relationship. So he said "lets be friends for now" and again "for now" is only tempary aid for you guys to "keep up". In the relationship context "keeping up" has to do with the time it takes to get to know each other, each other's likes, dislikes, and so forth. So he could have meant "We need to know more about each other in order to truly connect; lets be friends FOR NOW and meanwhile we will learn about each other as friends and eventually when we are ready we can start a relationship".

Nevertheless, I don't think he meant any of what I just said. I think he ACTUALLY meant that he never wants to date you,at all. But at the same time IF YOU ARE DESPERATE then it is possible to "construe" it as "for now" in the way I just described.

Anyway, I really think you have to come around and be blunt with him and ask HIM why he assumes you will "never" be good enough for him. Try telling him that you are willing to learn to overcome your social dificits and tell him that if he points out to you what you should improve you are more then wiling to improve it. The chances are he still won't date you. At least that is my experience. Telling people that I can improve never works. But who knows maybe you will be lucky enough for him to listen. At least you will be able to tell to yourself that you tried.

Thanks Roman,
I really appreciate your thoughts on this! I feel though that if he does not appreciate me for who I am (which is a quiet person) then he probably is not the one for me anyway. It is just extremely annoying and I believe you are right about snap judgments. If he would not have been so quick to think that he liked me this probably would not have happened in the first place.

I agree with you it is very shallow not to be appreciated as a quiet person. This is exactly why no one likes me. I don't know how to start a small talk and how to initiate and continue conversation. In the social gathering I would just quietly sit in the corner not knowing how to talk to anyone. I was always assuming it is Asperger, but could it be that Asperger affects different people differently? Could it be that in some cases Asperger doesn't make people quiet but makes them do something else entirey? In this case, perhaps our society dislikes quiet people a lot more than it dislikes anyone else -- and thats why "quiet" aspies such as you and me have it a lot worse than any other kind of aspies?

If thats the case I believe it is shallow. I mean being quiet is a good thing. To me "quietness" is a sign of intelligence. While I am not in a position to "know" since I don't know many people, I would assume that science professors are a lot "quieter" than high school dropouts. Yet our society will view high school dropouts as superior, since the "ability" of being loud somehow superceeds all other abilities! And I don't understand why is loudness considered to be a good thing anyway. I surely would RATHER be with someone quiet than someone loud. If someone is hyperactive I need some time to refresh. But if someone is quiet then I can connect to them. I mean I just don't understand these people who are so busy goofing off and playing video games. When do they find time to really enjoy themselves and each other?

Anyway, let us get back to that guy. You said that since he doesn't appreciate you he isn't right for you anyway. Well there are two things you have to consider. First of all, you should be honest with yourself. If you didn't think he was the one for you, you wouldn't have made the original post. Lets imagine this hypothetical situation. Suppose for some mysterious reason he comes to you right now and says he wants to date you. Would you turn him down? If the answer is no, it means you should try your best to get with him, even if the chances are very slim.

Secondly, suppose you were still thinking he wasn't the one for you anywyay. Even so, shouldn't you be angry at the concepts he was using, whether you end up together or not? In particular, you should be angry that

a) He thinks quiet is bad, when in fact quiet is good.
b) He thinks that "for now" means "not at all"

So in light of this I still think you have to try to persuade him that he is wrong. Once he SINCERELY understands he is wrong AND COMES TO THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION of wanting to be with you, THEN you can decide whether he is the right one for you or not. If he isn't, you should be the one turning him down not him turnign you down. That would at least set the records straight that he was the one on the wrong.



I agree. Snap judgements are very shallow. I think you should confront him in the following way. You should pretend to take literally the "for now" part. And then ask him: if he claims to be reasonable and slow, and says "for now", why does he make the snap judgements that he made? Why is he contradicting himself? Then after that confront him that actually he doesn't mean "for now" he means "not at all". But he viewes YOU as stupid so he tells YOU "for now". And then ask him why is he viewing you as stupid? And then tell him that actually "for now" is a great idea, because things are built over time and tell him he is shallow for not thinking that way.

I had a guy who said he "didn't want to date RIGHT NOW". After trying to get me to date his friend and then telling me the friend wasn't interested....i took it as he liked me and wasn't ready to date at the moment. He even later invited me to things, cared even more about what i thought of him (before not so much), responded more frequently but initiated less.....now he has a gf but its not me.

Thanks Roman and Mego,
Yes, it is confusing now because he is talking to me All the time , wanting to eat with me All the time and telling me I look nice and things like that (he stopped paying for my meals-maby that is the real reason he just wants to be firends LOL). So maybe he really did mean lets be friends for now? However, if not I really don't want to spend all of my time with him because others will think we are actually dating and no one else will ask me out. Maybe he wants to keep his options open with other girls? Do any of you have an opinion on this?
Yes, I know that quiet has nothing to do with intelligence! I think it has to do with rather or not you are a sensory seeker or sensory avoider (there are both in AS) and if you are a verbal or picture thinker. I am a picture thinker and a strong sensory avoider! It is hard for me to translate my pictures into sentences that make sense in a timely manner and it is especially hard to do this when places are noisy! I think sensory seekers thrive on it and crave it.

I had similar experience in 2005. A girl named Anne approached me in class and she was inviting me to do things every day, she was cooking for me, studying wiht me every day, writing me lots of long emails, and so forth. But when I asked her for a relationship she turned me down because she decided I was not confident. So I had the same question you do: if she turned me down, why did she spend so much time with me? As a matter of fact, she herself asked me "how would our relationship be any different if we were in a relationship". In other words she acknowledged that we were just as close as ppl who are in a relatioship. But if thats the case, why was she insisting on refusing to call it a relationship?

The way I made sense of it in case of Anne is that it is a status issue. You see, her reason for turning me down was the fact that I am not confident. Now you can ask yourself why is it bad to be with someone not confident? Shouldn't one be more concerned with how caring a person is? The answer is yes, which is precisely why Anne enjoyed my company so much. But at the same time, social stigmas tell her that if I am not confident then I "don't deserve" a "status" of a boyfriend. Hence she resused to give me that status in order not to "look bad". But, as long as I don't have a status I supposedly "don't deserve", she is more than happy to be just as close to me as she would have been in a relationship -- hence her statement "how would our relationship be any different if we were in a relationship".

Perhaps with your guy it is the same thing. He realizes you are very caring and therefore he enjoys your company. But, at the same time, he feels that you "don't deserve" a "title" of a girlfriend (in your case you "don't deserve" it because you are quiet, just like in my case I "didn't deserve" it because I wasn't confident). Thats why he makes it a point to refuse to call you girlfriend. But, at the same time, he happens to like quiet people (just like Anne happened to like ppl with low confidence). Thats why he likes spending time with you (just like Anne liked speding time with me). But, despite the fact that he likes quiet people, society "forces" him to stick to "the rules". Thus, he is "forced" to refuse to give you a title (just like Anne was "forced" to refuse to give me a title).

Quite frankly, I find this quite offensive. In fact, in many ways, it is even more offensive than if they actually didn't like you! I mean if he didn't like you then it is just a personal preference, fair enough. But if he LIKES you and STILL refuses to give a title, this means that he thinks you are OBJECTIVELY inferior. Thus, despite his personal preference being "in your favor" he refuses to give a title because you are still inferior according to "more objective bigger picture". Also, what is the point of refusal to give you a title anyway? I mean if he is just as willing to spend time with you as he ever was, what does he have to gain by refusing to give a title? The only thing he can possibly "gain" by this is to "put you down" and make you look inferior. This is like a purpose in itself. Don't you find it insulting?

This also seems to go against what love is all about. In case of Anne she wants her boyfriend to be confident. Well, love is a very gentle emotion, so I don't exactly see why being a super-macho would help you to "love". In case of your guy he doesn't like you because you are not loud enough. Well being loud doesn't help love either. In fact, one of the best ways for two people to connect to each other is by enjoying a quiet moment by the ocean. Not exactly something a loud person would do. So it seems like our society replaced the idea of love with the idea of sports! They want to give a "trophy" to someone who can jump through some hoops -- whether the hoops involve being confident or being loud. And the whole point of love is being lost! That is why both Anne and the guy you talk about have to look elsewhere, in the "just friends" category to find "love" (and of course they don't call it "love" since they are "not allowed" to). I think it is a real pity!

This also goes back to the whole "for now" issue. You see, if it is a sport then it is quite reasonable to ask you to jump through the hoop "very fast", and eitehr you made it or you didn't. So if you can't attract someone "right first second" this means you are "too clumsy" or "too slow", hence not deserving of a trophy. If it was about love, the picture would have been completely different. Love is about a "deep" appreciation of each other. Since it is so "deep" it is built over long period of time. True love does not obey societys rules such as "if you haven't made it on a first date you can't have a second date". True love is appreciating of each other as individuals, which has nothing to do with any rules. Yet our society is conditioned against the true love, because it doesn't look "macho" enough. Our society is all about macho. That is where the "first impression" rule comes in. If you are "macho" you can jump through the hoop and make a good first impression, if you aren't, you strike out. And I find it very shallow.

Of course, I am just guessing here. But the good news is that you and him are on talking terms so at least you can ask him and get direct answers (which is something I could no longer do with Anne). So I really think you need to have a frank disussion with him. Don't be "confused". Go to the source and ask! You need to openly ask him the following questions:

a) Since the two of you spend a lot of time with each other, what is the point of not calling you a "girlfriend"? How is your relationship differ from boyfriend/girflreind? What is it exactly he is not willing to do which he would have done for a "girlfriend"?

b) Does it bother him that you are quiet, or does he like it? Depending on what he answer, you will follow up with the following two questions:

(i) If he says your quietness bother him, why?

(ii) If he likes your quietness, why is he STILL using it as a reason to refuse to give you a title? Is it because of the pressures of the "society's rules" he is under? If so, why is he paying so much attention to what is "popular"? Why can't he just be himself and date the person he actually LIKES?

c) When he said "for now" did he really meant it? Again, depending on his answer you will ask him some of the following questions:

(i) If his answer is "yes", what exactly does he hope to accomplish during this period of time? Is he waiting to get to know you better, or is he busy in school "at the moment", or what? Also, how long will that period of time last during which you are just friends? Is "for now" refer to a week, or a month, or what? And how likely would you be his girlfriend "eventually"?

(ii) If the answer is "no" why is he using "for now" as a synonym of "not at all"? Point out to him that this thinking conveys an assumption that relatinoship is either "now" or "never". That would be the ONLY way "for now" can be equated with "not at all". Point out to him that "now or never" thinking is flawed, because people need to take time to get to know each other.

(iii) Again, if he tells you "no", ask him how does he know you will "never" change no matter how much you try. Point out to him that you might be simply unaware of his relationship needs, and if he were to simply tell you what his needs are you would have been more than willing to accomodate.

Thanks Roman! This is very helpful!! ! That is absolutely crazy about social status! That makes absolutely no sense to me why someone would be like that. Especially someone else with AS but I guess if you work so hard to fit in (and he is very social) then maybe you would adapt some of those insane rules.

So how did it turn out with your friend. Are you still friends?

It sounds like he is playing games because you have let him dictate the dynamics of the relationship, perhaps he knows he can have you without the commitment or devotion, perhaps he thinks he can get the milk without buying the cow.

The worst thing you can do in this situation is to be clingy and pressure him into a relationship, show him that you're not affected, that you are an independent person and won't fall into his hands, that will certainly change the dynamics of the friendship you and him have.

I can empathize- I've been dating, but I have no friends and employment is pretty much impossible.

I've told others I've just wanted to get to know them as friends, since to me actually dating or being in a relationship should be a commitment to a person you feel you already know well. But I guess I'm in the minority here.

Most friendships simply stay friendships and most relationships are started from the get go so two people can go from being casually known or strangers to having an intimate relationship.

There are people that do like to engage in friendship and a mutual understanding to take it slow but in most scenarios, that is unlikely.

Yeah, I hear you! I am in exact same situation. I had a couple of long term girlfriends but otherwise no friends. And its not because gf is easier to get than a friend; i would bet teh opposite is true. Rather, I put a lot of energy in ''manufacturing'' gf, hence i got exactly what my ''project'' was, and nothing else. Still I was forced to settle, so, not surprisingly, it didn't work out -- even though one of the girls stayed for almost 2 years.

So how about yourself? Were you also having better luck in a relationship department because you put so much focus on it? Or was it more because the guys were just using you for sex?

And you mentioned you are not employed. Does it mean your parents support you?