The other 'out' guys at the party

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Note: if you see this and instantly find your fingers heading toward TL:DR - skip to the bolded text at the bottom and maybe come back and read the rest for supporting detail, for the rest I'm just helping the point not to get lost )

I was at a house party last weekend, one of my best freind's girlfriend's friends is getting married. One of the girls in her young professionals club through something at her place - it was fun, they're resonably relaxed as in beerpong and flip cup aren't out of the question, half of them blaze, and its generally a fun no-drama environment anytime they come out.

At that party I ran into another guy who I'd met down at the state school back on St. Patrick's Day when I was last invited down there. Another friend of a friend who'd recently moved up from Florida and was staying in town for a while to hang out with friends.

Neither of these guys are losers, neither of these guys have hygein issues, neither is doing horrible career-wise, perhaps they're not quite over the $50k mark - they're in their late 20's, early 30's, so income's modest but clearly not bad either.

As the girls started having a semi-bachelorette party inside the guys kinda made their way out to the deck. The one guy, taller of the two, seemed to broach the topic - somehow we got on the topic of if we were dating, how it was all going and I think both me and the other guy he was asking had the same answer "Same as its ever been". It was one of those things where I cringed because I had a feeling, and I was right, that it was going to go into one of those single guy angst conversations. The problem is, while guys probably do need to vent that stuff its still stigmatized, and while I realized it shouldn't be I still got a bit of a chill as the topic shifted that way. Since I still felt like I was on the same page I gave a few of my own observations (kept them fair and noncathartic) but also tried to steer the conversation back on if I felt like anything was starting to sound vaguely misogynistic (I've been next to *that* guy at the party in the past and its just too much cringing for me). I know these guys though - they're not myso's, they're not bitter, they're not creeps; perhaps frustrated to see a aspect of their lives going differently than they wanted it to but my instinctive internal answer to that angst - you want something from a specific angle that nature will not give it to you from, hence you want a great relationship but a great relationship for you is something that requires instincts from women that they do not have, your bar is pretty much set at that level (partly because you're too cerebral to be ruled by what's between your legs) and you'll eventually realize - you don't want a relationship as it can happen in the real world, you just love the idea of it and wish you could have the closeness, the physical, the sense of endorsement, someone to share your life with etc. - great but, by our personality styles vs. what's available its probably not going to happen.

The thing I got to tinking about after that though, and what I wanted to broach here; it seems like a lot of guys who are in this situation have a lot of things in common with eachother and yes, with me:

a) high intelligence
b) semi-introvert
c) autonomous - into their own thing

I'd also really have to say that I'd add a dash of innocense. It seems like when I look around - its not all relationships but a lot; a healthy dash of corruption is needed, and its not that we literally *couldn't* do it, and to be quite honest I've had friends tell me stories about things girls asked them to do that I won't repeat here but I think no less of either, its clearly not a religious or judgment issue either. People have different emotional dispositions, different thresholds of what they enjoy or don't enjoy, what kinds of drama they either can enjoy or don't enjoy at all, and there's what specifically I think gets guys like me and like the guy's above in trouble - its the inner geek who wants to innocently explore a pure and clean world, keep it at arms distance, and keep it in his control in order to keep life going forward the way he wants it to. I wouldn't call it risk aversion, but its perhaps an aversion to risk taking for the sake of risk taking, and I'd suppose that these guys - and me - regardless of where our drives are ultimately have another thing in the way; our drives are subordinated to our intellectual/emotional wants and needs. Seems like a lot of the evolutionary head-butting and thrill seeking for the sake of impressing the other deer, swallow, or antelope, just doesn't give us enough in end reward.

I might be daring to suggest that its perfectly okay to be this way. I know that angle will be broached, its not super rare for people to come out and say that but, I kind of wanted to reiterate - I don't think a guy needs to be considered broken if he's single and is more oriented to life than his junk. It might seem like I'm shooting for a master's thesis in the obvious but, sometimes its hard not to see it as the hidden-obvious just because so much social conditioning is going on constantly.

What I don't understand, what I still don't have my head around in its entirety is what factors in that steers relationships away from guys like this - ie. its tough not to imagine women of the same mind, I've met women of the same mind, but when you get two people together who seem like book ends I think the question still comes down to 'In what ways are they alike?' - certain things gel, certain things explode, and certain things...well....just fizzle.

I have to wonder as well though - for those of us who just want to do our best being 'human' rather than arranging our whole lives around blind evolutionary destiny or, even more often, neither want to nor could even if it was convenient: What to make of our lives? Clearly we have value, whether single or in relationships with similar....er...spiritual?...oddities, but it can be quite tough to figure out what. Also I know that our world is changing and singlehood is becoming a new major mode - but being single still leaves people feeling like chopped liver rather than having a warm or embracing culture from within that crowd.

Any thoughts?

Not trying to say I think I'm all that intelligent or anything, but those criteria sound like me and in my experience I tend to be drawn to / work better with people more extroverted just because otherwise we'd just sit across from each other on our laptops doing our own thing in silence.
I think also that it does take a fair amount of engagement in the process and "hussle" to get into a relationship. Not that effort is a guarantee but it's harder to win with only one eye on the game.

"you want something from a specific angle that nature will not give it to you from, hence you want a great relationship but a great relationship for you is something that requires instincts from women that they do not have, your bar is pretty much set at that level (partly because you're too cerebral to be ruled by what's between your legs) and you'll eventually realize - you don't want a relationship as it can happen in the real world, you just love the idea of it and wish you could have the closeness, the physical, the sense of endorsement, someone to share your life with etc. - great but, by our personality styles vs. what's available its probably not going to happen."

You absolutely hit the nail on the head there for what describes my life as well.

It shouldn't have to be this way though, I wish I could understand the compulsion neurotypicals get to act brainless to achieve this goal. Any time I ever did anything compulsive at all when I was younger it backfired about as badly as it could so I learned not to do anything unless logic is involved, unfortunately relationships can't start from logic, they have to start from shots in the dark of BS and letdowns

Have you ever heard the term 'quirkyalone'? If you are going through another periodic cycle of questioning your singlehood, it sounds like your best bet might be to find a quirkyalone and make an attempt at being quirkytogether or a quirkycouple or whatever you'd want to call it.

Of course, getting two people with long-held, lofty ideals to compromise those ideals however much is needed in order for them to get together might be easier said than done, lol. I guess for some it will just feel like a better fit to focus on doing their "best being human" than it is to accept that every potential partner is also going to be human and then be willing to put up with his/her, um, humanity.

Being single and feeling "like chopped liver" has its pros and cons, as does allowing someone into your life, which is also full of potential risks and benefits. My thought would be that you need to do whichever feels like the lesser of two evils to you and own it. I don't really see another option.

Edit: I guess my post was probably not really helpful at all. Lol, sorry.

OP, I, too, think you've described a lot of us here. And I'm an older woman, I don't think it's just a young guy thing.

LOVED your original post, parts just hit the nail on the head.

blueroses, I like the idea of quirkyalone, I wonder if it's around where I live...

What to do with your lives? You make it about something else. Not defiantly or defensively, but quietly and proudly. That's what I've been doing.

Your threads always depress me for some reason.

I'm the life of the party so this does not really apply to me.

Right, and I couldn't agree more. It seems to take a certain variety of life experiences as well as internal drives their state (amplified or clamped based on how the world reacted) that has a lot to do with it. Seems like a lot of us start with very similar drives but its the waves crashing against each other that cause us each to find out not necessarily what we can't be but what the human world won't necessarily take us as.


I actually found out about Sasha and her web page from a book I recently read and yeah - she made a lot of sense. The only downside; her site has very little activity and it seems like it might be an island of NT's eventually trying to stem the tide of being crowded completely out by aspies/auties. I'd much rather see it be mainly an NT site since I'd hate to see quirkyalone be connotated with AS too strongly for NT's to find identity with it.


I suppose lofty is quite a relative term though. The biggest problem I think with two QA's getting together are that needs are eccentric, not specifically weird but perhaps not what's specifically in the lens of mainstream society to be propagating in their partner of preference's gender. I really think at worst most QA's would be more likely to be too cordial or passive to where they'd simply shake hands and part ways if they felt like it wasn't working. That's really one of those things where its simultaneously both good and bad - inconvenient for finding someone but then again when two do meet right they'll likely have everyone around them quite envious.

I guess it's all to do with outlook and someone's innate personality. We can all choose to see the positive in most situations, marital status being one of them.

I never felt like chopped liver when I was single, before my marriage and even after its demise. It was what was in store for me. I mourned the loss of the vow I took, but never did I feel that I was less of a person than the ones in relationships. I was happy to see other people happy.

I'm also a bit of an NT loner, so I always managed to enjoy my own company.

I'm in love now with a pretty amazing man and he makes me happy. I'm grateful he is in my life. But you know what? If I had never met him, I still would have strove to try and keep on being a neat human.

Like blueroses, I guess this doesn't answer your question either. All I know is we're all worthy of being loved. If it doesn't come from a romance, then it must come from kindness we bestow on ourselves.

Good luck.

Yeah, its a great inconvenience when one needs a partner to feel whole. I'm not sure where I am on that, I don't specifically think I do but when I say that I mean that I can drag myself along, be reasonably happy, and keep myself from complaining. Then again, I get the impression that - in the real world - I'd feel no different having a partner just in that I'd lose almost as much as I'd gain. Having someone to share myself intimately with: good, feeling straightjacketed developmentally or feeling like my options to explore internal change endanger consistency in who she bargained for in the beginning (have an incredibly complex set of life strengths and struggles) - not sure what to say on that last part.

Do you believe feeling that way will be an automatic part of you experiencing a long-term relationship? I've actually had partners push me towards positive personal growth quite a few times. Even some of my bad experiences at least taught me something I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

I think that if you ever find the right person, you won't feel that way at all. But, entering into situations with the expectation that someone will suffocate you and not giving their character enough credit is definitely going make it hard for you to find the right person. You won't be able to recognize them if you ever do see them.

It seems like it happens to guys or girls I've known who didn't think it through carefully or felt like they were in a rush to marry based on social pressure or some unwritten internal/environmental age statute.


I think I'll be okay when those situations come. To describe the flow for me though - I rarely even get to dating, don't meet anyone. That has to be the absolute biggest thing, perhaps 90% of it. I've found as well that on first glance NT's generally don't have much in the way of positive thoughts on me, that people like me but that's typically only once they get to know me - which would be great if I had opportunities in my environment, but terrible for any attempts at deliberately 'making' environment. When I do run into people then, and if they find themselves interested - the next step is starting a dialog, even if they're the right person and I am for them (I think this is true for anyone) you can still strike out, they can still strike out with you, or both if its the wrong time or the wrong place. With that situation in mind though it just amounts to not having enough actionable leads so to speak.

That said though, with some of these guys - the scenario you're mentioning could be very true and they could be too gunshy even when the right person comes. I don't know, I'd probably have to talk to them more to see if there's something to that with them, albeit I'm sure even if that's not the case for them that there are plenty of long term single guys who are in that bind or who've had past relationships where they were egotistically abused/dominated to where they shy away constantly.

You have to develop what we call a Patter.

Heh, considering that you've been braving the tides of chav culture all your life I get the impression that I really don't want know what that means.

Yeah, there are lots of chavs here. Patter means Chat. It's like a front that you develop over time that works.

Last edited by ZX_SpectrumDisorder on 13 May 2012, 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wow, that Quirkyalone website is even more depressing than this one.

I can't imagine choosing to be that way.. I scored an 89 on their little quiz.. but I'm that way by chance.. not choice.